when are sids and stars used in the real world?

[Tyrion101]

what situations would a real airliner use them?

[mgh]

In the UK, the Standard Route Document (SRD) gives the ATC refered routing between pairs of UK airports and entry/exit points from UK airspace. These include published SIDs and STARs.

In addition, any filed flight plan that specifies a non-standard route at aerodromes where SIDs are designated will be referred back to the originator for correction by ATC. Also the flight proceedures at major aerodromes require the use of published STARs for aircraft inbound from airways and specified Terminal Holding Points. Of course as always, necessity may overide these requirements.

[davestewart]

I read one of Mike Ray's handbooks, the 737 and he said you will end up with a lot of paperwork if you try the whole flight from start to finish thing. I Joined Navigraph and downloaded copies of the high level airway charts, and the approach plates of a few airports that I would like to try. So I can go through the whole flight planning bit. It does add to the experience, more than just learning to programme the data into the PMDG 747 and letting it do its thing and just 'watching' the flight sim. But it uses up most of a day getting a flight planned and then flying it. But a sense of achievement at the end....but a lot of reading up to understand it all. I'm no fantastic pilot, in fact there are some basics i'm still to master, but I enjoy the whole thing

[ReggieF5421]

what situations would a real airliner use them?

Almost every flight. They save a lot of paperwork in filing a flight plan, they save ATC a lot of work in routing traffic to/ from large airports.

Your question is basically "In what situations of commercial truckers use interstate highways when arriving or departing big cities"

[Propane]

Almost every flight. They save a lot of paperwork in filing a flight plan, they save ATC a lot of work in routing traffic to/ from large airports.

Your question is basically "In what situations of commercial truckers use interstate highways when arriving or departing big cities"

Yes, they are basically always used in flight planning and filing. Whether they are used that much during the actual flight is something else though.

Possibly country/area related, but I've been flying in Sweden for a while now, and have yet to fly a complete SID or STAR. This includes flying into Stockholm Arlanda. Vectoring can be way more efficient for both the pilots and ATC. Enroute clearances more often then not contain the phrases: "...fly runway heading until XXXX feet, turn right direct XXXXX...". It gets us to the waypoint faster, and ATC doesn't have to worry about us because we're out of his hair. By the time we get near to the point we're cleared to, he has handed us off to the next controller.

Same goes for arrivals. The sooner ATC gets us to the ground, the sooner we're no longer his problem. So even though we have a STAR filed, we usually get vectored before or as soon as we pass the entry point of the STAR. If it's busy, he'll just let us fly a bit farther from the field on one of his vectors to ensure separation.

[ReggieF5421]

I've seen 'corners' cut on STARs arriving in the Dallas area often when getting to ride in the company biz jet jump seat. Unlike a highway, ATC can send the plane across corners to get the plane on the ground faster if the traffic flow allows.

[barty]

Usually they are prescribed for used in and out of busier airports or entire terminal areas. They are designed in such a way that under normal operations, they provide a basic level of separation between arriving and departing aircraft and provide convienent way of sequencing arrivals and departures.

In very busy terminal areas, it is not uncommon for there to be specific STARs for satellite airports to further segregate general aviation turbojet traffic from air carrier traffic. Usually this is the case in approach controls that have sectors that are tailored specifically to serve satellite airports, such as around Atlanta.

[signon]

For Airliners it's Assumed they will always fly some SID or STAR when Available. Meaning if its there fly it. Its up to ATC if they want or need to divert an aircraft from the SID or STAR. But they still need to be filed. A free access to all charts for US airports is available at htt[://www.airnav.com Use then As much as possible. The exception to the rules are GA aircraft. Although encouraged to use them For some aircraft they can not meet the expectations of the SID or STAR. Its like the Direct to. Its never used in a airliner. But Common on GA aircraft. A route is best but GA typically don't have the performance to keep up with the flow of the airliners departing on a STAR or arriving on a SID. They can do so at lower altitudes. But Some RNAV SID or STARS do have Altitude restrictions. Pay attention to Turbo Jet and Turbo Prop comments as well. If its for a turbo prop don't fly it as a jet. Case in Point Dallas Intl. has these. Research through Google. You can find a lot of info. Also through Vatsim.net
We also do training at our VA as well.
Destrey Trainham
CEO North Star Executive
NSX665
http://www.northstarexecutive.com

[alaskancrab]

Even though you would always program in the right STAR, chances are when you get into arrival airspace they are going to start vectoring you to expedite the flow.

[barty]

ATC is usually bound by letters of agreement on what aircraft must fly a STAR or other preferred routing. During certain times of the day, they are mandatory for all turbojet and turboprop aircraft arriving at certain airports that will be spelled out in the LOA. Usually this is the case with centers, they are expected to ensure that all arrivals (usually the center before the center in which the airport is located, it would be impractical for a controller in Memphis Center to know what specific arrival a GA aircraft would need to be on going into Seattle Approach, for example) are on the appropriate arrival.

But the whole point is to funnel aircraft through specific arrival "gates" if you will. As I mentioned earlier, keeping aircraft in these arrival gates usually ensures lateral separation from departing aircraft of similar performance. Hence why SIDs and STARs are usually optional for slower moving aircraft.