Might be shopping for XPlane, but first :

[Razor68]

They allready have the 3D models in 3ds max, and sure they have got the hold on the script/plugin for xp obj export. so they need to learn the datarefs and planemaker. And you do not have to be a rocket scientist to learn planemaker.

[ricardo_NY1]

I just have 2 questions for you.
I'm curious in what way you think FS9 is better than X-Plane? I mean, specifics.
And why do you say Austin needs to pay PMDG to make a good business decision? That makes no business sense at all.

As to why I think FS9 is better. The biggest reason at the moment is because FS9 doesn't suffer from a serious rendering issue, which is the horizon/volumetric fog problem. You're an XP10 user, so I'm sure you've seen it first hand. There is no good reason why that problem should exist in an otherwise excellent software, but it does. I hope it gets resolved.

Regarding your second question, I didn't say Austin needs to pay PMDG to make a good business decision................I said that Austin paying PMDG to produce an X-Plane exclusive is a good business decision. The idea here being that an outfit like PMDG has a lot of followers, and if they were to do a certain aircraft or project for X-Plane only, it would literally force/tempt people to cross over. It's the same idea used by Xbox and PS3 in their "Earlier for this console" releases or exclusive titles. This idea is not new..........it is strategic herding of customers. Trust me when I tell you......if there is anything that Austin could invest in X-Plane, it would be getting a couple of companies like PMDG to do a couple of exclusive aircraft titles for them. If Carenado can make aircraft for X-Pane, so could PMDG. It doesn't have to be PMDG in particular. Just imagine that Level-D pumped out a 737 for X-Plane and it was made public that it would be an X-Plane/Laminar exclusive. People would be buying X-Plane not for the software itself but to fly that Level-D 737. That is the way things work. People will follow where the developers are developing.

Lastly, I would like to see XP do well. To overtake the market, Laminar should go for the jugular and pull something in line with what I mentioned above. That's the type of strategy that pulverize the competition.

[lefu]

Any 2d panels ? as GPS panel, overhead, panel, mcdu, throttles as in FS ?

I tried the demo and cant really decide about XPlane, i downloaded XP9, demo has a couple of aircrafts, only VCs.
Shouldnt demos be as complete as the whole game but given a limited playing time ?

I dont really care about texture effects or rendering. I want the "whole hamburger but i dont care how salty it is"

[Razor68]

Nearly all freeware have 2d panel, some both 2d and 3d. Payware have all 2d and 3dpanels, or should i say a 2d panel mode that looks like the 3d panel. OH panel, Pedestal. and some have a functional fms system. But there is xfmc (freeware) and ufmc (payware) if the aircraft only has that cdu lookalike witch is only a gps, then you can use one of the addon cdu. I have them both and like the freeware most.

[callmecapt]

As to why I think FS9 is better. The biggest reason at the moment is because FS9 doesn't suffer from a serious rendering issue, which is the horizon/volumetric fog problem. You're an XP10 user, so I'm sure you've seen it first hand. There is no good reason why that problem should exist in an otherwise excellent software, but it does. I hope it gets resolved.

So just the volumetric fog. That's the decider for FS9 to trump X Plane 10.
I mean no offense when I say this, Ricardo, but have you compared FS9 to XP10. Night lighting. 3D cockpits. Performance. Flight model.

Regarding your second question, I didn't say Austin needs to pay PMDG to make a good business decision................I said that Austin paying PMDG to produce an X-Plane exclusive is a good business decision. The idea here being that an outfit like PMDG has a lot of followers, and if they were to do a certain aircraft or project for X-Plane only, it would literally force/tempt people to cross over. It's the same idea used by Xbox and PS3 in their "Earlier for this console" releases or exclusive titles. This idea is not new..........it is strategic herding of customers. Trust me when I tell you......if there is anything that Austin could invest in X-Plane, it would be getting a couple of companies like PMDG to do a couple of exclusive aircraft titles for them. If Carenado can make aircraft for X-Pane, so could PMDG. It doesn't have to be PMDG in particular. Just imagine that Level-D pumped out a 737 for X-Plane and it was made public that it would be an X-Plane/Laminar exclusive. People would be buying X-Plane not for the software itself but to fly that Level-D 737. That is the way things work. People will follow where the developers are developing.

Lastly, I would like to see XP do well. To overtake the market, Laminar should go for the jugular and pull something in line with what I mentioned above. That's the type of strategy that pulverize the competition.

It's all fine if PMDG or LVLD come over, but like I said, anything they make will be started from scratch with regards to programming.
In saying that, there are many very good developers for x plane. People would be very surprised at what's available and what is to come.

They allready have the 3D models in 3ds max, and sure they have got the hold on the script/plugin for xp obj export. so they need to learn the datarefs and planemaker. And you do not have to be a rocket scientist to learn planemaker.

Razor
It doesn't quite work like that. The script for exporting is readily available for anyone to download. That is used for simple object and animation exporting using default datarefs. If they want to make their Jetstream, 737, etc... for x plane, they have to program everything again using C++ through the x plane SDK. As well as texture everything again. X Plane uses 2048 x 2048 texture maps. Not 4096's like many FSX add ons. And it is not possible to export more than 21 objects and 21 textures for any one add on. Last I heard, the PMDG 737 had 65+ textures. To see a PMDG 737 in X Plane will take about 2 years at least.
And no, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to learn planemaker, but its nowhere near as easy as some people think it is.

[callmecapt]

Any 2d panels ? as GPS panel, overhead, panel, mcdu, throttles as in FS ?

I tried the demo and cant really decide about XPlane, i downloaded XP9, demo has a couple of aircrafts, only VCs.
Shouldnt demos be as complete as the whole game but given a limited playing time ?

I dont really care about texture effects or rendering. I want the "whole hamburger but i dont care how salty it is"

The demo has everything the full version has except global scenery. It does include all the aircraft. However, it is limited to Seattle. It's understandable you want everything in the demo, and be willing to accept the time limit, but are you really willing to download about 80GB worth of x plane demo?

[Razor68]

There is only one script that anyone at x-plane.org knows of for 3ds max and that is a russian guy that have, i have talked to him and are going to buy it in a couple of days. Cost 30 euro and it's the same one that jrollon used when he made the crj 200. It was jrollon that connected me up to that russian guy. If you know of another script then you know something that i never heard of. Do you have a link to that script?

[callmecapt]

There is only one script that anyone at x-plane.org knows of for 3ds max and that is a russian guy that have, i have talked to him and are going to buy it in a couple of days. Cost 30 euro and it's the same one that jrollon used when he made the crj 200. It was jrollon that connected me up to that russian guy. If you know of another script then you know something that i never heard of. Do you have a link to that script?

Razor
There are 3 export scripts available. 1 for 3dsmax, 1 for Blender and the official Laminar supported script for AC3D.
These are just export scripts. They do not allow a developer to code specialized plug ins (like FMC, fly by wire, etc..). All that is done through the X Plane SDK and needs to be compiled.
The scripts are purely for exporting your 3d mesh, textures and animations (using only generic panel regions and default datarefs) into X Plane.
The Blender scripts are found here...
http://marginal.org.uk/x-planescenery/tools.html
The official scripts supported by Laminar are found here...
http://wiki.x-plane.com/Scenery_Tools
It's labelled "AC3D 6.1 X Plane plug in"

Again, these scripts do not have any plug in functionality at all.
To make FMC's, custom systems, fly by wire, etc...you will need to read up on the SDK (there's a lot of reading) and you will have to know how to program in C/C++
SDK page...
http://www.xsquawkbox.net/xpsdk/mediawiki/FrontPage

[ricardo_NY1]

So just the volumetric fog. That's the decider for FS9 to trump X Plane 10.
I mean no offense when I say this, Ricardo, but have you compared FS9 to XP10. Night lighting. 3D cockpits. Performance. Flight model.



It's all fine if PMDG or LVLD come over, but like I said, anything they make will be started from scratch with regards to programming.
In saying that, there are many very good developers for x plane. People would be very surprised at what's available and what is to come.

The volumetric fog issue is not the only factor, but the main one for me. Let me mention that it doesn't affect night flying. I have compared FS9 and XP10.........I am a FS9 user (Since its release) and have never purchased FSX. I've used it but do not own it. I own a full version of XP10 and have been using it every chance that becomes available time wise. This is really a matter of personal opinion, and I am holding XP10 in very high regard and know exactly where it excels. When I say a matter of personal opinion, I'll emphasize what an individual is looking for. I personally do not care for 2D panels or virtual cockpits. I'm from the homecockpit building arena, so as long as XPUIPC can get PM working or some other glass/gauge software, I am fine with it. External models and things like that are pointless in my book, as an example. "At the moment" is pretty much that, because I do believe the issue will either be patched or fixed, and I am certain the next release of XP10 is going to seal the deal. XP10 could gain serious momentum down the road, but it needs help in a few departments and what I mentioned about a company like PMDG is key......

The point is not to have a company like PMDG or Level D just "Come over"...........it's to sway/steer/force the MSFS crowd to come over. Those outfits have a following, and creating XP/Laminar exclusive content would have a positive effect for XP and a negative one for whatever platform is not going to be getting that exclusive content. This is irregardless of the quality of the product. For all you know, the X-Plane people could very well turn out a better offering, but that is not going to bring anyone over from MSFS. The point is to steer the crowd over, because once it is there, they will adopt the platform. XP is in the best position of its existence to become what MSFS has been. I would like to see them achieve it. Aside the good product, I've seen the videos of Austin being interviewed and explaining the product, and I have faith that this guy is going to keep on delivering to this hobby.

[jomni]

Any 2d panels ? as GPS panel, overhead, panel, mcdu, throttles as in FS ?

I tried the demo and cant really decide about XPlane, i downloaded XP9, demo has a couple of aircrafts, only VCs.
Shouldnt demos be as complete as the whole game but given a limited playing time ?

I dont really care about texture effects or rendering. I want the "whole hamburger but i dont care how salty it is"

The plane can either have VC or 2D. I hear some have both but I haven't figured out how to switch (probably it's outside the game).


The things that spoil my XPlane10 fun:
1) Poorly functioning ATC (it gets better through patches though)
2) AI philosophy where you manually choose planes and livery or leave it to X-Plane to randomly generate. AI don't follow real world schedules and think they can land anywhere. (don't know if this will ever get fixed)
3) Cities look like suburbs (may improve in the future as they add more 3d building models)
4) Bare airports (well they do add some buildings through patches and also there are downloadable 3rd party stuff)
5) No GUI for flight planning (3rd party Goodway flight planner not fully compatible with XP10)

But I see some progress since buying this in December and it got my hopes up.