Quickie FAA Regulation Question

[pacallen]

I was planning to go on a cross country with my friend (PPL rated), his instructor, and myself. I asked who'd sit up front and he said himself and his instructor because its mandatory that if a CFI is on the plane with a PPL and a student pilot that the CFI must be in reach of the controls. I asked my instructor and he said there isn't a reg that says that and if my friend is the PIC (and he is with his private rating), anyone can sit next to him. Who's right?

Thanks,
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[Matt]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-02 AT 05:52PM (EST)[/font][p]
If the PIC is a PPL rated pilot, anyone can sit in the right seat, assuming the flight takes place in conditions for which the PIC is qualified. For example, you can't fly into IMC with a PPL who has no IR. In this case a CFI with an IR would have to sit in the right seat.

But i'd say the CFI you are talking about just wanted to sit in the front and made up some lie - or he doesn't know better and someone should make sure his CFI certificate is still valid ;)

edit:

one more scenario: The CFI would have to sit in the right seat, IF it is a training flight. If it is not a training flight, then the previous posted would be the correct answer.

Also, you should consider the currency of the PPL pilot. Does he have the required stuff logged in his logbook to carry passengers? If not, the CFI, again, would have to sit in the right seat.

[pacallen]

It was actually the PPL that told me and his reasoning was that it is an extra safety measure. I asked if it was just a rule for the FBO where he trained and he said it was an FAA reg. We would just be taking the instructor as a passenger and treating her to a meal because my friend just got his license.

Thanks for the info.

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[KenG01]

There are no regs that I am aware of stating the CFI must sit right seat in a non-training flight. If the CFI is not giving dual instruction, then they are not PIC unless the left seat pilot agrees to it. However, with a newly minted PPL, it would be a good idea to have the CFI in the right seat.

-----
Ken G:-wave

[Yarddart152]

This is something I heard about that before. It is not a reg, but in the event of something happening, they always look at who has the most hours or the one with the most advanced ratings. So in a since, whoever has the most flight hours is responsible in the event of something going wrong. My instructor wont sit in the back either if its a none training joy flight with people of lesser ratings.

[Matt]

"whoever has the most flight hours is responsible in the event of something going wrong"

Clarify please. Is this a rule in your country (assuming your not in the US), or this just on your flights? 'Cause this would not be true in the US. Whoever is the designated (legal) PIC, who can be designated before the flight, or during flight, is responsible for all action. Even if a newly minted PPL takes an ATP pilot flying, it is the PIC who was designated before the event occured, that is completely responsible.

[Shawnc]

>This is something I heard about
>that before. It is not
>a reg, but in the
>event of something happening, they
>always look at who has
>the most hours or the
>one with the most advanced
>ratings. So in a since,
>whoever has the most flight
>hours is responsible in the
>event of something going wrong.
>My instructor wont sit in
>the back either if its
>a none training joy flight
>with people of lesser ratings.
>

That maybe true if the CFI is in either of the seat where he can get to the controlls but if hes in the back seat, he's not responsible for squat, though if his life is in jepordey he would start talking the person down.


"God has spoken to me and has given me 15... 10 commandments"

[Khirsah13]

As long as the person ACTING as PIC is appropriately rated for the airplane and the meteorological conditions, then you can sit next to them and you can fly the plane the entire flight. I can't even think of any regulations that would keep you out of the left seat off of the top of my head. The person acting as PIC is the person that assumes sole responsibility for the safe and legal operation of the aircraft. They don't ever have to touch the controls.

You cannot, however, as a student pilot, log this time. You can't log it as solo (another person in the aircraft), you can't log it as PIC (can't carry a passenger as a student pilot), and you can't log it as dual received (not with a CFI).

As to the safety of the issue, it depends on the other person's experience. If he's a freshly minted PPL, then I would say it's probably not a good idea. If he has 300 hours in-type then it's going to be a little bit safer, and may even be fun.

-Khir
PPL Student
"When logic and proportion
have fallen sloppy dead,
and the White Knight is talking backwards,
and the Red Queen's 'Off with her head!'
Remember what the dormouse said:
'Feed your head. Feed your head.'"
-Jefferson Airplane, White Rabbit
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[lnuss]

whoever has the most flight hours is responsible

Not so. The pilot in command is responsible. Granted that juries are unpredictable, and strange things may happen in court, but to the FAA it is the PIC. If they have trouble determining who was PIC, then they do all kinds of strange things, but...

However, more to the point is that many CFIs and many other experienced pilots (including me) won't fly without a set of controls available, unless it is someone they trust an awful lot. For me, that is a small handful of people.

Larry N.

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[Matt]

hold it.

Dont confuse him. He, as the student pilot, can NOT touch the controls of that aircraft, unless a CFI has access to the controls.