is the mooney m20j A 1" of MP per minute plane?

**zolteck** · 05-26-2010, 03:39 PM

was wondering about that,vfe and best glide if anyone knows? I dont know why this wasn't in the carenado manuals. Thanks for any info about this plane I think I was told 90 for best glide but with flaps and gear down that just cant be right.

**Brett_Henderson** · 05-26-2010, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by zolteck

was wondering about that,vfe and best glide if anyone knows? I dont know why this wasn't in the carenado manuals. Thanks for any info about this plane I think I was told 90 for best glide but with flaps and gear down that just cant be right.

The real world, and MSFS models, are often at odds, when it comes to this stuff.. but it's close enough, even for those paying that much attention to realistic detail when they fly.

Mooneys are notorious for being more about speed, than climbing (and gliding).. So a V-best-glide is gonna be higher than you'd think. I've got several hours in M20Js.. and had the Carenado installed for a while (haven't put it back since a re-installation).. It's pretty realistic.. except for their weird way of simulating the ram-air. What they did, was turbo-charge it, and limit MP to 32 (I think), and set the critical altitude to 2000msl. This does work for high-altitde cruise use of ram-air, but it really messes up the MP for lower altitudes. I just re-did the cfg and made it normally aspirated, and got rid of the emrgency power (how they implimented ram-air). It was only good for about 1.5 inches in the M20s I flew.

As for V-speeds... Just like for real.. I'll read them out of the POH for an airplane I'm not familiar with... but what it really boils down to, is V-ref (approach speed). That number is usually pretty close to Vy, and will certainly do for best-glide. Consequently V-ref for a Mooney is higher than you'd think. What I remember, was keeping it above 90kias until you have the runway made.. and they are a bit nose-heavy, so a few extra knots won't hurt.. once you get much below 90kias.. it's coming down with authority.

Vfe would be the top of the white-arc (but we all cheat and add 5-10 knots for the first notch)..

The MP reduction is relative. You aren't paying for a sim engine.. so you can pull to idle, any time..lol.. But realistic operation would indeed be as slow a reduction as is practical. One-inch per minute isn't always practical... A Mooney guru told me that you'll learn to start power-reductions early, because they just don't want to slow down. "be at 20" by 20 miles out", was his mantra.

**zolteck** · 05-26-2010, 06:46 PM

that's very interesting.. and thank you I appreciate it. I did notice that that ram air is kinda err idk pointless...aside from that I really like this plane a lot would recommend it to anyone.

**napamule2** · 05-26-2010, 11:17 PM

There are things you can do in the Sim that you might not do in 'real' and for 'interesting' planes that are difficult, this might help.

Do everything you usually do on your approach (you might have a 'routine') and when 1 or 1 1/2 mile out, and at 90, input up pitch trim (to where you feel you have to push stick forward a bit) and let it settle. It will slow for you. Don't undo pitch trim, but reduce throttle instead. Wait and you will feel the pressure coming off your controls.

Reduce throttle as usual and you might even have to input a little MORE up pitch tirm. But at any rate, you slowed it down while maintaining control. It takes a couple of times to get the feel of it but that's how I do it. No struggles. Cool and calm manipulating of what tools you have to achieve a result. Throttle and pitch I use together all the time and I can land the Mooney at 60 to 65 kts smoothly touching (no 'drop'). But only in the Sim of course.
CB
Napamule

**zolteck** · 05-27-2010, 12:22 AM

right I see what your saying use pitch to slow you down more so than throttle......someting that bugs me is flying in the pattern climb on upwind full throttle 2500 fly downwind 20" 24 and 13 crossing the threshold about 10 on base ive been reducing throttle before reaching pattern alt. starting to pull back midfield downwind...just flying this plane I feel like I got my hand on the throttle a lot more no big deal I guess, but yea I fly my final @ 71 kias 80 if it's windy.

**cvearl** · 05-27-2010, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by zolteck

right I see what your saying use pitch to slow you down more so than throttle......someting that bugs me is flying in the pattern climb on upwind full throttle 2500 fly downwind 20" 24 and 13 crossing the threshold about 10 on base ive been reducing throttle before reaching pattern alt. starting to pull back midfield downwind...just flying this plane I feel like I got my hand on the throttle a lot more no big deal I guess, but yea I fly my final @ 71 kias 80 if it's windy.

Check this real checlist out. Or rather this link http://freechecklists.net/Resources/Mooney/M20J_MSE/ and the last one listed is Phil Vergese's list. Word Doc Format.

One of my favorite checklists for one of my favorite planes. Shows reference flight profiles for the pattern as well as the Climb, Cruise and Decents and Approaches. I am getting that one laminated with a ring in it.

Here is a fantastic reference document on the 20J! http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/...on_report.html

I still like taking my printed copy and seeing if I get the same numbers. My favorite part is the Run up and take off proceedures. Full Rich under 5000 MSL and mild back pressure on take off roll to prevent nose wheeling into the ditch. The little details in this document made me feel like I was really learning how to fly a 20J.

I had an opportunity to sit in one the other day and my first impression was that I was sitting in Corvette. Slung low with my legs out in front of me. The yoke was very small and metal. I felt like I was wrapped in a plane. Nothing like the few Cessna's I have been in. The Cessna 210 I have been in feels like a Ford 3/4 ton truck in comparison. I had a strange familiarity with the cockpit having flown the simulated one for so many hours. It was really neat knowing where everything was!

Only complaint with the Carenado I had was the sound. The engine drones in a loop at some settings. But I learned to ignore it. Had to turn the base on my speakers down.

Charles.

**cvearl** · 05-27-2010, 10:42 AM

Brett, can I ask you about the EGT gauge?

There is a needle I can move on it. Is peak where I get the gauge to the highest point I can? Then set that needle to where that is as a visual reference? Then to set micture at 100 degrees rich of peak as described by the test pilot in that document... Is that push the mixture knob in for 1 notch below the peak on that gauge? 1 Notch = 100 degrees? How do you know when you are 100 rich of peak I guess is my question.

Charles.

**Brett_Henderson** · 05-27-2010, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by cvearl

Brett, can I ask you about the EGT gauge?

There is a needle I can move on it. Is peak where I get the gauge to the highest point I can? Then set that needle to where that is as a visual reference? Then to set micture at 100 degrees rich of peak as described by the test pilot in that document... Is that push the mixture knob in for 1 notch below the peak on that gauge? 1 Notch = 100 degrees? How do you know when you are 100 rich of peak I guess is my question.

Charles.

Yes.. as you lean, CHT will rise, peak, and then lower..

So as you lean (pull out), you'd push back in to richen.

I don't have the M20J installed righ now, but it wouldn't matter.. MSFS EGT gauges aren't calibrated well (and real ones are notoriously inaccurate).

Most of the airplanes I've flown, have an EGT that's set up in either 50, or 25 degrees per division.. but I rarely use them. I'll lean by instinct during the climb.. and lean by ear for the cruise. Also, MSFS has an odd bug in fuel-flow, that allows you to lean by peaking it for max power, and leaning slightly past peak for economy.

And this is where the adjustable needle comes in. If you want to lean by the EGT, just make a note of where the EGT needle is for whatever setting you desire (max-power, or economy) from your fuel-flow leaning, and use that. In the real world, that's all I've ever use the needle for.. a reference to a known setting.

**cvearl** · 05-27-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Brett_Henderson

Yes.. as you lean, CHT will rise, peak, and then lower..

So as you lean (pull out), you'd push back in to richen.

I don't have the M20J installed righ now, but it wouldn't matter.. MSFS EGT gauges aren't calibrated well (and real ones are notoriously inaccurate).

Most of the airplanes I've flown, have an EGT that's set up in either 50, or 25 degrees per division.. but I rarely use them. I'll lean by instinct during the climb.. and lean by ear for the cruise. Also, MSFS has an odd bug in fuel-flow, that allows you to lean by peaking it for max power, and leaning slightly past peak for economy.

And this is where the adjustable needle comes in. If you want to lean by the EGT, just make a note of where the EGT needle is for whatever setting you desire (max-power, or economy) from your fuel-flow leaning, and use that. In the real world, that's all I've ever use the needle for.. a reference to a known setting.

Great response. Thank you so much.

The other day I rode shotgun in a Cirus SR22 GTS Turbo Glass cockpit and all that. It had Lean assist! And it handles RPM/Prop pitch automatically. There is just a thrus lever! Almost flys itself! No Prop knob. There was a mix handle though. Personally I prefer flying the old school steam gauges with GPS as backup reference. I love the Carenado models. Especially this Mooney.

C.