takeoff pitch

**dzairul** · 03-26-2009, 11:58 PM

hi there,
i'm flying posky a330 with add-on panel( by ken mitchell).
during takeoff, it's pitching extremely till 20 degrees angle and causing stall. therefor, i'm always trim down the pitch (-1.0/-1.5) before takeoff. is there anythg to do by configure the panel cfg or the aircraft itself?

**angels355** · 03-27-2009, 01:20 AM

In a real plane you have to check and set the elevator pitch every time you fly it. But I agree, it's really annoying for the trim to be set in the extreme upwards every time you start up. Don;t know how to change this in the cfg but perhaps someone might.

***n4gix*** · 03-27-2009, 01:45 PM

Just make certain that you don't have a saved "default flight" where you've left the autopilot turned on with ALT hold selected...

**Avechelice** · 03-27-2009, 02:00 PM

Hello,

Yes and strange.
Using same panel and plane:
Same phenomena at TO
Go to 20� with flaps 14 and trim elevator at 0.0
When cruising at cruise speed and autopilot Alt Hold .. the trim elevator set to -3.2 !
The trick is to preset the autopilot for a altitude and with a correct climb speed and put ON just after TO

Regards.

**Avechelice** · 03-27-2009, 03:42 PM

Hello,

After some tests:

Change for have this in aircraft.cfg

reference_datum_position = 8, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 8, 0, 0

You will (I'm) able to TO with no probs
180-190 Knots rotation
Flaps 14
Trim setting + 0.2 or 0.3
You will have a climb angle + - 10�

Regards.

**napamule2** · 03-27-2009, 07:26 PM

With that change (ref datum pos=8) did you not mess up your lights (have you checked them)? How about your ground handling (ie: contact points)? (Finish the job).
Chuck B
Napamule

**Avechelice** · 03-27-2009, 10:35 PM

Hello,

All good for this plane:

[fltsim.0]
title=Airbus A330-200 - Air Comet
sim=A330-200-PW4168A
model=geNOsat
panel=
sound=
texture=KUO
checklists=
atc_airline=Red Comet
atc_id=EC-KUO
atc_flight_number=
atc_heavy=1
atc_parking_types=GATE, RAMP, CARGO
atc_parking_code=MPD
ui_manufacturer=A330
ui_type=A330-223
ui_variation=Air Comet [EC-KUO]
visual_damage=1
description=Project Opensky Airbus 330-200 v2 Version 2004.8.3. model by Shervin Ahooraei. FDE v08.7 for Airbus A330-200, PW4168A engines, by Pedro J. Mesa. Test Pilot Jos� M. P�rez. Textures Air Comet repaint by Pedro Montes. For proper operation: See A330 manual at: www.projectopensky.com
*********************************************************************************************
atc_id_color=0000000000

[General]
atc_type=AIRBUS
atc_model=A332
performance=\n\nDesign Weights\nMax Ramp Weight: 515,700 lb\nMTOW: 513,700 lb\nMLW: 401,200\nMZFW: 374,800 lb\nOEW: 270,659 lb\nMaximum Payload: 98,340 lb\nMaximum fuel capacity: 36,750 US gal @ 111.687 kg\n\nBasic Operating Data\nEngines: two PW4168A\nThrust Range: 68,600 lbs slst\nTypical Cruise Speed: 0.82 Mach at 35,000 ft\nDesign range: 5,130 nm (9.500 km)\nMaximum range with Max fuel + payload: 6,317 nm (11.700 km) with 298 pax and reserves\nPassenger seating configurations: 298 x 2 class @ 286 x 2 class\nCargo Capacity: Bulk hold volume - Standard/option 19.7 / 13.76 m3 - 695 / 486 ft3.
Performance Short Range
Max FL 450
Level Cruising Climb Descent
Speed Speed Rate Speed Rate
000-100 250 250 1700 250 1500
100-150 450 330 1900 330 1800
150-225 440 415 1800 420 2200
225-300 470 455 1300 460 2000
300-450 470 450 650 450 1500
Performance Long Range
Max FL 410
Level Cruising Climb Descent
Speed Speed Rate Speed Rate
000-075 260 250 1900 250 1200
075-195 440 320 1600 390 1900
195-300 475 440 1100 450 1600
300-410 495 430 500 450 1600
**************************************************************************************
editable=0

[weight_and_balance]

// ACM V2.3
max_gross_weight = 515700
empty_weight = 270659
reference_datum_position = 8, 0, 0
empty_weight_CG_position = 8, 0, 0
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 17911486
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 8955743
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 22751035
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 0
max_number_of_stations = 7

station_load.0 = 4586.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0 |26 Confort Class
station_load.1 = 12405.0, 0.0, 0.0, -3.0 |Fwd Cargo
station_load.2 = 11993.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0 |68 Econ Class
station_load.3 = 11993.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0 |68 Econ Class
station_load.4 = 11993.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0 |68 Econ Class
station_load.5 = 9668.0, 0.0, 0.0, -3.0 |Aft Cargo
station_load.6 = 11993.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4.0 |68 Econ Class

[lights]

//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing

light.0 = 1, 7.800, 0.000, -5.500, fx_beaconb ,
light.1 = 1, 0.200, 0.000, 14.500, fx_beaconh ,
light.2 = 4, 66.000, 0.000, 8.000, fx_vclight ,
light.3 = 2, -48.3, -93.4, 10, Opensky_airbus_strobe
light.4 = 2, -48.3, 93.4, 10, Opensky_airbus_strobe
light.5 = 3, 18, 27, -4, Opensky_wing_light
light.6 = 5, 19.933, 8.827, -4.368, Opensky_wing_light,
light.7 = 5, 18.000, -27.000, -4.000, Opensky_wing_light,
light.8 = 5, 19.933, -8.827, -5.368, Opensky_wing_light,
light.9 = 5, 19.700, 19.000, -6.000, Opensky_nacelle_refl,
light.10 = 5, 19.700, -19.000, -6.000, Opensky_nacelle_refl,
light.11 = 3, -111.900, 0.000, 11.420, Opensky_nav_yellow ,
light.12 = 2, -111.900, 0.100, 11.300, fx_strobeh ,

[GeneralEngineData]

//0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
engine_type = 1
fuel_flow_scalar = 0.880
engine.0 = 15.166, -30.386, -7.583
engine.1 = 15.166, 30.386, -7.583
min_throttle_limit=-0.299927

[effects]
wake = fx_wake
water = fx_spray
dirt = fx_tchdrt
concrete = opensky_sparks, 1
touchdown = fx_tchdwnnew, 1

[fuel]

//Longitudinal (feet), Lateral (feet), Vertical (feet), Usable(gallons), Unusable (gallons)

fuel_type = 2
number_of_tank_selectors = 1

Center1 = 0, 0, -4, 10979, 0
Center2 = -83.676, 0, 0, 1653, 0
LeftMain = -7, -37.983, 0, 11095, 0
LeftAux = -13, -70.269, 0, 964, 0
RightMain = -7, 37.983, 0, 11095, 0
RightAux = -13, 70.269, 0, 964, 0
electric_pump=0

[contact_points]
static_pitch = -1.242
static_cg_height = 11.211
max_number_of_points = 11

point.0 = 1.0, 51.233, 0.000, -11.300, 1181.102, 0.0, 4.845, 75.0, 1.50, 0.510, 0.510, 9.1, 9.0, 0.0, 280.0, 300.0
point.1 = 1, -15.5, -17.75, -14, 1574.803, 1, 4.845, -8, 2.3, 1.5, 0.55, 9.6, 9.8, 3, 280, 300
point.2 = 1, -15.5, 17.75, -14, 1574.803, 2, 4.845, -8, 2.3, 1.5, 0.55, 9.8, 9.9, 2, 280, 300
point.3 = 2.000, -14.167, -84.717, 0.000, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.4 = 2.000, -14.167, 91.817, 0.000, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.5 = 2.000, -120.667, 0.000, 2.500, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.6 = 2.000, 88.417, 0.000, -3.750, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.7 = 2.000, 14.167, -99.917, 0.000, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.8 = 2.000, 0.000, 44.750, 0.000, 787.402, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 8.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.9 = 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 4, 0, 10, 30
point.10 = 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 2, 0, 10, 30
gear_system_type=0

[keyboard_response]
elevator = 100.000, 200.000
aileron = 100.000, 200.000
rudder = 50.000, 100.000

[forcefeedback]
gear_bump_nose_magnitude = 3000
gear_bump_nose_direction = 18000
gear_bump_nose_duration = 250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude = 2700
gear_bump_left_direction = 35500
gear_bump_left_duration = 250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude = 2700
gear_bump_right_direction = 00500
gear_bump_right_duration = 250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1 = 1300
ground_bumps_angle1 = 08900
ground_bumps_intercept1 = 3.0
ground_bumps_slope1 = 0.20
ground_bumps_magnitude2 = 200
ground_bumps_angle2 = 09100
ground_bumps_intercept2 = 1.075
ground_bumps_slope2 = 0.035
crash_magnitude1 = 10000
crash_direction1 = 01000
crash_magnitude2 = 10000
crash_direction2 = 9000
crash_period2 = 75000
crash_duration2 = 2500000

[airplane_geometry]
//ACM_AREAW1// 0,0,0,6.0960,3.3375,3.3375,1.9269,7.7181,6.6750,6.6750
//ACM_AREAW2// 3.8538,9.3402,10.0125,10.0125,5.7807,10.9624,13.3501,13.3501,7.7076,12.5845
//ACM_AREAW3// 16.6877,16.6877,9.6346,14.2067,20.0252,20.0252,11.5615,15.8288,23.3628,23.3628
//ACM_AREAW4// 13.4884,17.4508,26.7003,26.7003,15.4154,19.0730,30.0380,30.0380,17.3423,20.6951
//ACM_AREAH1// 0,0,0,7.0815,1.1801,1.1801,0.9902,7.7177,2.3605,2.3605
//ACM_AREAH2// 1.9807,8.3540,3.5406,3.5406,2.9709,8.9903,4.7210,4.7210,3.9614,9.6266
//ACM_AREAH3// 5.9011,5.9011,4.9517,10.2628,7.0815,7.0815,5.9421,10.8991,8.2616,8.2616
//ACM_AREAH4// 6.9324,11.5354,9.4420,9.4420,7.9228,12.1716,10.6222,10.6222,8.9131,12.8079
//ACM_AREAV1// 0,0,0,8.3210,0.9244,0.9244,0.6473,8.3027,1.8490,1.8490
//ACM_AREAV2// 1.2947,8.2843,2.7736,2.7736,1.9421,8.2660,3.6981,3.6981,2.5894,8.2477
//ACM_AREAV3// 4.6227,4.6227,3.2369,8.2294,5.5472,5.5472,3.8842,8.2111,6.4718,6.4718
//ACM_AREAV4// 4.5315,8.1928,7.3963,7.3963,5.1789,8.1745,8.3210,8.3210,5.8263,8.1562
//ACM_CAREAW1// 15.0190,15.0190,11.7192,12.9384,16.6877,16.6877,12.6827,13.8409,18.3565,18.3565
//ACM_CAREAW2// 13.6461,14.7433,20.0252,20.0252,14.6096,15.6458,21.6940,21.6940,15.5731,16.5484
//ACM_CAREAW3// 23.3628,23.3628,16.5365,17.4508,25.0317,25.0317,17.5,18.3533,26.7003,26.7003
//ACM_CAREAW4// 18.4634,19.2560,28.3691,28.3691,19.4270,20.1585,30.0380,30.0380,20.3903,21.0610
//ACM_CAREAH1// 0,0,3.5406,7.0815,1.1801,1.1801,4.5310,7.8948,2.3605,2.3605
//ACM_CAREAH2// 5.5213,8.7081,3.5406,3.5406,6.5117,9.5214,4.7210,4.7210,7.5020,10.3346
//ACM_CAREAH3// 5.9011,5.9011,8.4925,11.1479,7.0815,7.0815,9.4827,11.9612,8.2616,8.2616
//ACM_CAREAH4// 10.4731,12.7747,9.4420,9.4420,11.4635,13.5880,10.6222,10.6222,12.4539,14.4013
//ACM_CAREAV1// 0,0,2.0801,6.2406,0.9244,0.9244,2.7276,6.5553,1.8490,1.8490
//ACM_CAREAV2// 3.375,6.8698,2.7736,2.7736,4.0223,7.1844,3.6981,3.6981,4.6697,7.4988
//ACM_CAREAV3// 4.6227,4.6227,5.3171,7.8133,5.5472,5.5472,5.9644,8.1280,6.4718,6.4718
//ACM_CAREAV4// 6.6118,8.4425,7.3963,7.3963,7.2593,8.7571,8.3210,8.3210,7.9067,9.0715
wing_area = 3892.000
wing_span = 197.10
wing_root_chord = 20.000
wing_dihedral = 6.218
wing_incidence = 0.000
wing_twist = -0.500
oswald_efficiency_factor = 0.600
wing_winglets_flag = 1
wing_sweep = 30.000
wing_pos_apex_lon = 30.000
wing_pos_apex_vert = 0.000
htail_area = 1050.000
htail_span = 69.700
htail_pos_lon = -85.100
htail_pos_vert = 0.000
htail_incidence = 0.000
htail_sweep = 40.000
vtail_area = 690.000
vtail_span = 27.300
vtail_sweep = 35.000
vtail_pos_lon = -79.576
vtail_pos_vert = 5.800
elevator_area = 137.000
aileron_area = 68.000
rudder_area = 232.000
elevator_up_limit = 24.000
elevator_down_limit = 18.000
aileron_up_limit = 25.000
aileron_down_limit = 25.000
rudder_limit = 45.000
elevator_trim_limit = 15.000
spoiler_limit = 35.000
aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 3.000
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 9.969
min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 0.000
spoilerons_available = 1

[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24
generator_alternator_voltage = 28
max_generator_alternator_amps = 60
electric_always_available = 0
flap_motor = 1, 0, 1
gear_motor = 4, 0, 1
autopilot = 0, 5, 17
avionics_bus = 0, 0, 1
avionics = 1, 5, 17
pitot_heat = 0, 0, 1
additional_system = 0, 0, 1
marker_beacon = 0, 0, 1
gear_warning = 7, 0, 99
fuel_pump = 0, 0, 1
starter1 = 0, 20, 17
starter2 = 0, 0, 1
light_nav = 0, 0, 1
light_beacon = 0, 0, 1
light_landing = 0, 0, 1
light_taxi = 0, 0, 1
light_strobe = 0, 0, 1
light_panel = 0, 7, 99
auto_brakes = 0, 0, 1
standby_vacuum = 0, 0, 1
hydraulic_pump = 0, 0, 1
fuel_transfer_pump = 0, 0, 1
light_recognition = 0, 0, 1
light_wing = 0, 0, 1

[pitot_static]
vertical_speed_time_constant=999 //Increasing this value will cause a more instantaneous reaction in the VSI

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=0.990 <<See SDK, use to adjust cruise pitch
parasite_drag_scalar=0.800 <<Often too high in AIR file, 0.7 might be appropriate. Set for appropriate PPH or TAS but see "TurbineEngine"
induced_drag_scalar=0.900 <<1.0 should be good if 'Oswald' right
elevator_effectiveness=0.800 <<These three might be set as desired
aileron_effectiveness=1.900
rudder_effectiveness=1.800
pitch_stability=1.500 <<Increase if ALT hold 'hunts'
roll_stability=1.000
yaw_stability=1.300 <<Increase if AC is unstable in Yaw
elevator_trim_effectiveness=0.9 <<High enough so AC almost stalls at full UP trim
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.000 <<Lower is probably better
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.000 <<Lower is probably better

[TurbineEngineData]
bypass_ratio=5.0
fuel_flow_gain=0.0020
inlet_area=54.5416 //Square Feet, engine nacelle inlet area
rated_N2_rpm=10450 //10450 Max RPM per PW4168A engine (FAD certificated)
static_thrust=68600
afterburner_available=0
reverser_available=1

[jet_engine]
thrust_scalar=1.220

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=0
autothrottle_available=1
autothrottle_arming_required= 1
autothrottle_takeoff_ga= 8
autothrottle_max_rpm= 110.0
pitch_takeoff_ga=4.000
use_no_default_pitch = 0 // 0 = Default to current pitch mode, 1 = No default pitch mode.
use_no_default_bank = 1 // 0 = Default to Wing Leveler mode, 1 = No default bank mode.
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
max_pitch=10.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=30.000000
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=9.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.250000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain=1.000000
************************************************************************************************

[Flaps.0] //Flaps
type= 1 //1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard= 0.8
extending-time= 20.0
flaps-position.0= 0.0, /0
flaps-position.1= 1.0, /1 Holding 240 kts (speed limit)
flaps-position.2= 8.0, /1+F Takeoff 215/205 kts
flaps-position.3= 14.0, /2 Takeoff/Approach 196 kts
flaps-position.4= 22.0, /3 Takeoff/Appr/Ldg 186 kts
flaps-position.5= 32.0, /FULL Landing 180 kts
lift_scalar= 1.200
drag_scalar= 0.700
pitch_scalar= 0.050
damaging-speed= 240.000
blowout-speed= 260.000
system_type= 1

[Flaps.1] //Slats
type= 2 //1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard= 0.8
extending-time= 8.0
flaps-position.0= 0.0,
flaps-position.1= 16.0,
flaps-position.2= 16.0,
flaps-position.3= 20.0,
flaps-position.4= 23.0,
flaps-position.5= 23.0,
lift_scalar= 1.100
drag_scalar= 0.500
pitch_scalar= 0.050
damaging-speed= 250.000
blowout-speed= 300.000
system_type= 1

[Flaps.2] //Ailerons
type= 2 //1 - tail, 2 - lead
span-outboard= 0.8
extending-time= 8.0
flaps-position.0= 0.0,
flaps-position.1= 0.0,
flaps-position.2= 5.0,
flaps-position.3= 10.0,
flaps-position.4= 10.0,
flaps-position.5= 10.0,
lift_scalar= 1.000
drag_scalar= 0.400
pitch_scalar= 0.050
damaging-speed= 250.000
blowout-speed= 300.000
system_type= 1
************************************************************************************************

[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed=132.000
full_flaps_stall_speed=124.000
cruise_speed=460.000
max_indicated_speed=350.000000
max_mach=0.870020

[Views]
eyepoint=68.550, -1.800, 8.200

[Radios]
// Radio Type=availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 1
Com.2=1, 1
Nav.1=1, 1, 1
Nav.2=1, 1, 0
Adf.1=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1

[direction_indicators]
direction_indicator.0=3,0

[TailHook]
tailhook_length=1 ;(feet)
tailhook_position=-15.0, 0.0, -1.0 ;(feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum
cable_force_adjust=1.0
[folding_wings]
wing_fold_system_type=4 ;0=None
fold_rates=0.12,0.11 ;Percent per second
[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale=1.100000
parking_brake=1
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available= 1 //Normal
pct_throttle_limit= 0.125 //Percent throttle that activates warning
flap_limit_idle= 5.042029 //Flap angle that activates warning at idle
flap_limit_power= 25.496622 //Flap angle that activates warning at above idle
[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps=0
engine_map=1,1,0,0
normal_pressure=3000.000000
[stall_warning]
type=1
[attitude_indicators]
attitude_indicator.0=1
[turn_indicators]
turn_indicator.0=1,0
[exits]
number_of_exits = 2
exit_rate.0 = 0.2 ;Percent per second
exit_rate.1 = 0.1 ;Percent per second

Video:

http://www.vimeo.com/3890119

Regards.

**napamule2** · 03-28-2009, 11:09 PM

Your 'fig' has entry in AP section of 'Default_Vertical_speed=0'. I guess you then enter it manually? Just wondering if you have stall problem on climb, or what?

And don't forget to un-fold your wings and retract the tail hook (hahaha).
Chuck B
Napamule

**Avechelice** · 03-29-2009, 07:09 AM

Hello,

All my planes have the 'Default_Vertical_speed=0'.
It's indeed a personnal setting.
I'm not aware of a default vertical speed already set in the autopilot of real aircrafts

I allways wondering why many producers of FS aircrafts had put a other value than 0
Some I have downloaded had already 0 but it's very rare.
Why not put also a heading ... speed .. or a ILS frequency

I don't have any stall problem .. it's just I set before take off my climb rate. Aswell for the reduction of the elevator trim sensitivity " elevator_trim_effectiveness=0.9 " (generally I reduce from 1.0 to 0.9 or 0.8 depending type of plane)

And don't forget to un-fold your wings

ROFL

Certainly not in flight .. not I fear folding the wings (they are fixed and flexibles thank's God) but this will (mapped in the model) open some door ...

Regards.

**napamule2** · 03-29-2009, 04:41 PM

Of course, your are right, and you are right, and again you are right. Makes more sense for v.s. to be '0'. (Still learning after 10 yrs of cfg tweaking). And a definite 'oops' as I forgot they use W.F. and T.H. for exits. So the joke is on me, we might say. (Or just a 'senior moment'?-was past my nap time?). Got some good tips from your post for simmer's extend / retract time post. Nice work. Thanks for sharing.

I Tweak Daily, or it seems like it, and some of the models can be a bear to tweak. I also hammer the air file. Some things are more easily adjusted from there. Also more easily trashed from there, too. AirEd is my 'buddy'.

I have been working with FS2000 aircraft (the C-185 Skywagon from John Cantwell-no prop showing) where the cfg only has the (fltsim.x) section and then letting the air file write the cfg sections upon loading with 'select aircraft' (which then have to be tweaked, of course). No flt tuning, no radios, no pitot heat, no lights, etc. Ever try that? LOTS of 'fun' (not). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule