Flying a pattern for landing in FSX.

[munnst]

Hi,

flew a very enjoyable flight from Shoreham to Manston.
As I approached Manston flying @ 135 knots, 2500feet Tower instructed me to
"enter lefthand downind for runway 28, No3 for landing". At this time I had runway 28 at my 10oclock. Now am I correct in thinking a left hand pattern would be to fly a box pattern around the airfield keeping the runway on my left flying anticlockwise. This sounds reasonable to me. So as I am already approaching 28 I need to fly a complete circuit. However FSX cleared me to land just as I was entering the circuit, as I passed runway 28. Is this correct. Shouldn't I be cleared to land when I'm in the circuit turning base or thereabouts?

Anyway I enter the circuit and are number 3 to land. I drop my speed to around 90knots and 1500 feet. I can't see no's 1 and 2 so i'll keep an eye out and listen for when they are cleared to land. I'm flying what I would call a pretty loose circuit although I turned downwind pretty much as the runway was off of my port wing (too tight maybe). As I'm flying my circuit I keep hearing all these aircraft being ordered to go around, so presumably I've undercut these planes so they are behind me? Maybe I'm just too slow and they got bored :-)

Anyway I land okay.

So the questions are how 'loose' should a circuit be and is it normal to be cleared to land so early or does FSX ATC just recognise that I've passed my runway so it must be time to land?

Regards,

Ted.

[Tim_A]

To join downwind, simply approach parallel to the runway, with the runway positioned about 1 mile to the left (note: In America they have a 45-degree mid-runway joining procedure, but this is England, and we don't hold truck with such practices ) When you are abeam the upwind (10) numbers, you call "downwind" on the radio.

Circuits should never be "loose", although you should avoid overflying noise sensitive areas. As a rule of thumb, for spacing, if you are number 2, extend your downwind leg until the number 1 plane has passed you going the other way on final, and then turn base.

You would not normally be cleared to land until you were on final and the previous aircraft has vacated the runway, but again, FS ATC is American, and doesn't obey European rules.

[munnst]

FS ATC is American, and doesn't obey European rules.

Hi,

thanks for the info. I guess to rearly fly the circuit I need to turn aircraft labels on as it's virtually impossible to spot other aircraft until they are pretty much on top of you.

I hadn't thought about FSX ATC being Americanised. To fly in Europe I guess I'll just use the ATC as a guide and fly the circuit as it should be.

Wonder if there will be a European ATC addon. Would be nice to hear regionalised voices.

Regards,

Ted.

[Tim_A]

it's virtually impossible to spot other aircraft until they are pretty much on top of you.

That's pretty true to real life, especially if they are on similar or reciprocal headings.

[Kurtvw]

Well, even here in America it would be unusual for tower to clear you to land when you aren't even in the pattern yet..

However, I have many times been issued clearance to land when I'm on downwind abeam mid-field. And all it means is that you will be completing the normal pattern, but you need not wait for any additional landing clearance.

It does not mean that you should make a short approach or abbreviate the pattern at all, it simply means that when you arrive on final you're already clear to land.

Hope that clears things up. In the U.S. if they want you to do a short approach or otherwise do anything contrary to the pattern procedure, you will be given specific instructions to that effect (which doesn't happen in FSX).

[tigisfat]

In real life, I've been cleared to land many times when I've been pretty far away. I've not even joined the pattern yet when I've been asked if I see the traffic I'm following, if I reply in the affirmative, I'm usually cleared to land immediately. When flying a visual approach on an IFR flight plan, I'm not even required to have the airfield in sight as long as I can see the traffic in front of me landing at the same field.

If you're number three to land, you must worry about visual separation before you try to fly a perfect pattern. Try to follow your traffic in a manner that will have you on short final as they leave the runway.

For a proper pattern, male your turns when your reference points are at your rear quartering angles. Don't turn away from upwind until you're at least 500AGL, and you'll be fine. If you look at the A/FD, there are sometimes specialized pattern instructions.

The standard patterns unless otherwqise instructed are always left hand patterns (left turns) and IFR holding patterns are always right turns unless otherwise instructed.

[SPOFF]

Something which may be so basic it has not been mentioned. Larger planes..faster planes will have a wider pattern.... farther away from the airport on downwind, ...longer downwind leg before turning to base, and likely at a slightly higher altitude. SPOFF

[tigisfat]

............ and likely at a slightly higher altitude. SPOFF

pattern altitudes are standardized; that's not true. If you have no other information, assume 1,000AGL. Heavies sometimes have special instructions to fly a visual pattern at 1,500AGL, but when do heavies ever fly a visual pattern? I've also seen an airport where overflying traffic required a 500AGL pattern.

[metro752]

I fly em all the time, and pretty tight to the runway at night so I don't hit anything.

Then again, I'm not flying a heavy, just an RJ. I figure 300 foot a mile for my descent into the field, unless for some reason I feel like eating up a ton of gas and leveling off.

So 1500 foot at midfield downwind works great at night. 2 downwind, 1 base, 2 final, constant turn from downwind to final.

[bstolle]

With the 767 we fly visual patterns as well of course.
Normal pattern altitude 1500ft.
Abeam threshold (gear down flaps 20), start timing and after 30sec you turn base.
Furthermore you want to keep it rather tight, because in bad viz you don't want to loose sight of the airport!