Re: Structural Failure

[ladamson]

Hello Fellow Pilots,

This is my first time here and I think guys have a really Great Site. Keep up
the good work!!

I have a few issues with CFS I'd like some feedback on. First though, I think
MS has a real jewel here, but it needs some refinements.

My main problem with CFS is the apparent lack of adhearance to dynamic loads of

the airframe caused by airspeed and g-forces. I would think that one should
not be able to take an any of the aircraft in CFS to a suitable altitude and
drop it in a full power dive, straight at terra firma, and not do some damage
to the airframe. Especially if one pulls out of said dive at over 9.9 G's!.
Something has got to give, IE. the main spars of the wing. I mean 600+ KTS in
a P-51 and no damage???? Come on now.... What about compressability? The
manual said something about it, but inflight I haven't seen any signs of its
presents. I have on many ocassions, intentionally tried to destroy my
aircraft, all have failed, unless, of course, I hit someting. Next, shouldn't
the airframe become weaker as battle damage increases? Shouldn't the wings
come off at a slower airspeed, or lower G load if its all shot up?

Finally engine damage induced by operator error, lean mixtures create heat, low

airspeed and high AOA increase engine load and creat heat, WEP increases MAP
and tries to blow the heads off of the cylinders. WEP should not be used for
more than five minutes. However, in CFS, I flew around with WEP engaged until
it was gone, at a high AOA and low airspeed, yet the engine ran great, no
increase of Coolant temp or oil temp. This won't happen in real life. My
Merlin should have locked up.

Well...there it is...thats how I see it anyway. Maybe I ask too much, but they

said it was a real life combat simulation....

Comments...
Opinions...


Respectfully
Gunfighter III

Seems like at this point, Microsoft has not put to much emphasis in
re-creating what happens when you exceed normal limits. This does not really
bother me too much because I know the outcome before hand. EAW will throw out a
little message telling you ---- you cannot do this, at this speed.

On the subject of real life combat, even at 4.5 G's your getting thrown
around quite a deal & your body feels it. Without actual G-forces, we tend to
put much more pressure on a simulated aircraft frame than we would ever want
too in real life.

At this point, I still prefer the "normal range" flight modeling of CFS over
EAW.

P.S. --- If your P-51 pulls out of a dive at 9.9 G's ---- you most likly won't
ever have to worry about what the airframe damage looks like.

L.Adamson

[gunfighteriii]

Hello Fellow Pilots,

This is my first time here and I think guys have a really Great Site. Keep up
the good work!!

I have a few issues with CFS I'd like some feedback on. First though, I think
MS has a real jewel here, but it needs some refinements.

My main problem with CFS is the apparent lack of adhearance to dynamic loads of

the airframe caused by airspeed and g-forces. I would think that one should
not be able to take an any of the aircraft in CFS to a suitable altitude and
drop it in a full power dive, straight at terra firma, and not do some damage
to the airframe. Especially if one pulls out of said dive at over 9.9 G's!.
Something has got to give, IE. the main spars of the wing. I mean 600+ KTS in
a P-51 and no damage???? Come on now.... What about compressability? The
manual said something about it, but inflight I haven't seen any signs of its
presents. I have on many ocassions, intentionally tried to destroy my
aircraft, all have failed, unless, of course, I hit someting. Next, shouldn't
the airframe become weaker as battle damage increases? Shouldn't the wings
come off at a slower airspeed, or lower G load if its all shot up?

Finally engine damage induced by operator error, lean mixtures create heat, low

airspeed and high AOA increase engine load and creat heat, WEP increases MAP
and tries to blow the heads off of the cylinders. WEP should not be used for
more than five minutes. However, in CFS, I flew around with WEP engaged until
it was gone, at a high AOA and low airspeed, yet the engine ran great, no
increase of Coolant temp or oil temp. This won't happen in real life. My
Merlin should have locked up.

Well...there it is...thats how I see it anyway. Maybe I ask too much, but they

said it was a real life combat simulation....

Comments...
Opinions...


Respectfully
Gunfighter III

Seems like at this point, Microsoft has not put to much emphasis in
re-creating what happens when you exceed normal limits. This does not really
bother me too much because I know the outcome before hand. EAW will throw out a

little message telling you ---- you cannot do this, at this speed.

On the subject of real life combat, even at 4.5 G's your getting thrown
around quite a deal & your body feels it. Without actual G-forces, we tend to
put much more pressure on a simulated aircraft frame than we would ever want
too in real life.

At this point, I still prefer the "normal range" flight modeling of CFS over
EAW.

P.S. --- If your P-51 pulls out of a dive at 9.9 G's ---- you most likly won't
ever have to worry about what the airframe damage looks like.

L.Adamson

I agree with what you are saying about the real life flight and the tendency to
over control in a sim. That is something that a pilot of a sim aircraft has to
learn to become a real ace. I'd still like it to be modeled in the sim because
pilots had to watch engine temps in combat, we should to. Make it as real as
possible. I know we'll never have a G-generating chair, (boy wouldn't that be a
thrill!!) but engine failure due to over temp or over boost is possible and I
think it would be nice to see. BTW take a C-182 from MSFS98, put it in a full
power dive and see what happens after you exceed Vne.

Respectfully

Gunfighter III

[ladamson]

snipped

I agree with what you are saying about the real life flight and the tendency to

over control in a sim. That is something that a pilot of a sim aircraft has to
learn to become a real ace. I'd still like it to be modeled in the sim because

pilots had to watch engine temps in combat, we should to. Make it as real as
possible. I know we'll never have a G-generating chair, (boy wouldn't that be a

thrill!!) but engine failure due to over temp or over boost is possible and I
think it would be nice to see. BTW take a C-182 from MSFS98, put it in a full
power dive and see what happens after you exceed Vne.

Respectfully

Gunfighter III

I agree concerning engine controls. Just like cowl flaps, mixture, prop & fuel
management in any small plane. Items you have to learn & properly execute in
addition to shooting down the "bad" guys in a sim or just to fly around in real
life.

Been using the 182 imported to CFS quite a bit lately. Easy to change the
time of day settings. Suppose I'll check out the power dive---- that's what
sims are for, I guess.

L.Adamson

[leesw]

snipped

I agree with what you are saying about the real life flight and the tendency to

over control in a sim. That is something that a pilot of a sim aircraft has to
learn to become a real ace. I'd still like it to be modeled in the sim because

pilots had to watch engine temps in combat, we should to. Make it as real as
possible. I know we'll never have a G-generating chair, (boy wouldn't that be a

thrill!!) but engine failure due to over temp or over boost is possible and I
think it would be nice to see. BTW take a C-182 from MSFS98, put it in a full
power dive and see what happens after you exceed Vne.

Respectfully

Gunfighter III

I agree concerning engine controls. Just like cowl flaps, mixture, prop & fuel

management in any small plane. Items you have to learn & properly execute in
addition to shooting down the "bad" guys in a sim or just to fly around in real

life.

Been using the 182 imported to CFS quite a bit lately. Easy to change the
time of day settings. Suppose I'll check out the power dive---- that's what
sims are for, I guess.

L.Adamson

[leesw]

snipped

I agree with what you are saying about the real life flight and the tendency to

over control in a sim. That is something that a pilot of a sim aircraft has to
learn to become a real ace. I'd still like it to be modeled in the sim because

pilots had to watch engine temps in combat, we should to. Make it as real as
possible. I know we'll never have a G-generating chair, (boy wouldn't that be a

thrill!!) but engine failure due to over temp or over boost is possible and I
think it would be nice to see. BTW take a C-182 from MSFS98, put it in a full
power dive and see what happens after you exceed Vne.

Respectfully

Gunfighter III

I agree concerning engine controls. Just like cowl flaps, mixture, prop & fuel

management in any small plane. Items you have to learn & properly execute in
addition to shooting down the "bad" guys in a sim or just to fly around in real

life.

Been using the 182 imported to CFS quite a bit lately. Easy to change the
time of day settings. Suppose I'll check out the power dive---- that's what
sims are for, I guess.

L.Adamson

It is suprising MS didn't implement stress damage in CFS like they did in FS98.


About the mixture, cowl flaps, and other fine-tuning controls though, I think
it is just as well we don't have those, or they can be set to automatic. In a
real WWII aircraft there are a handful of prominent knobs and levers labeled
'mixture', etc., but in sims we have 104 keys labeled "ABC.." etc, plus
hundreds more with <Ctrl>,<Shift>,<Alt> combinations. Trying to remember and find the right
keystrokes for these things in the heat of battle is a distraction I don't
need.

[leesw]

---snip---

About the mixture, cowl flaps, and other fine-tuning controls though, I think
it is just as well we don't have those, or they can be set to automatic. In a
real WWII aircraft there are a handful of prominent knobs and levers labeled
'mixture', etc., but in sims we have 104 keys labeled "ABC.." etc, plus
hundreds more with <Ctrl>,<Shift>,<Alt> combinations. Trying to remember and find the right
keystrokes for these things in the heat of battle is a distraction I don't
need.

Sorry, that should have read "Ctrl, Shift, Alt key combinations".

[drquest]

Hello Fellow Pilots,

This is my first time here and I think guys have a really Great Site. Keep up
the good work!!

I have a few issues with CFS I'd like some feedback on. First though, I think
MS has a real jewel here, but it needs some refinements.

My main problem with CFS is the apparent lack of adhearance to dynamic loads of

the airframe caused by airspeed and g-forces. I would think that one should
not be able to take an any of the aircraft in CFS to a suitable altitude and
drop it in a full power dive, straight at terra firma, and not do some damage
to the airframe. Especially if one pulls out of said dive at over 9.9 G's!.
Something has got to give, IE. the main spars of the wing. I mean 600+ KTS in
a P-51 and no damage???? Come on now.... What about compressability? The
manual said something about it, but inflight I haven't seen any signs of its
presents. I have on many ocassions, intentionally tried to destroy my
aircraft, all have failed, unless, of course, I hit someting. Next, shouldn't
the airframe become weaker as battle damage increases? Shouldn't the wings
come off at a slower airspeed, or lower G load if its all shot up?

Finally engine damage induced by operator error, lean mixtures create heat, low

airspeed and high AOA increase engine load and creat heat, WEP increases MAP
and tries to blow the heads off of the cylinders. WEP should not be used for
more than five minutes. However, in CFS, I flew around with WEP engaged until
it was gone, at a high AOA and low airspeed, yet the engine ran great, no
increase of Coolant temp or oil temp. This won't happen in real life. My
Merlin should have locked up.

Well...there it is...thats how I see it anyway. Maybe I ask too much, but they

said it was a real life combat simulation....

Comments...
Opinions...


Respectfully
Gunfighter III

from dr quest..only a opinion.....for $39.95 try janes ww2 fighters
stress ,,,damage,,,blow the motor...smoke..oil...moving propellor..
giver the p51 full power and she will begin to roll over...
the only thing is you can import everbodies home made birds...or scenery..
pete