Extra 300 - still useless

[vilhelm]

What is with the Extra and aerobatics? First of the plane can't knife edge. I don't care how much speed you have.

Just doing some aerobatics (4 point roll), it's useless since you need to knife edge on both sides.

Just playing around doing some crazy stuff the plane goes up tumbling (GAINING altitude - it's all over the screen). Why haven't they fixed this? The Extra 300 is as useless as a car without an engine.

[Captain America]

I flew it once, for about 5 minutes.
Came to the same conclusion as you.
Haven't touch it since.

[Valkyrie321]

Meh... The Extra 300 as presented has significant issues indeed, however it fits the needs of my aerobatic team. We don't need 4 point rolls and knife edges for what we do. Using the plane properly does task the FSX aerodynamic engine though. It really brightly shows what is capable and what isn't. You can get a nice elevated flat spin going, and occasionally a tail slip... but they are not done like they are done in real life.

[vilhelm]

Someone make a fix for this please... payware - REAL Extra 300. It would be a blast if it had a real feel.

[tomavis]

Somebdy already has.Look in the library.It was a Patty Wagstaff model with an improved air file.Tomavis

[napamule2]

And if you describe what a 'knife edge' is, and maybe how it's 'set up' I can tweak the cfg/air dydnamics to make it possible, at the expense of maybe some other 'attribute' when it's all over. Like, it being able to do 20G 'snap' rolls.

I could Google the term, but probably would just get a picture with no 'feel' of what it really is supposed to be (details).
Chuck B
napamule

[Valkyrie321]

A knife edge is when a plane turns at a 90 degree bank and uses its rudder as an elevator to maintain altitude. In FSX, and pretty much any version of FS, the rudder is not calculated correctly as a aerodynamic surface... thus it is ineffective in correcting altitude loss, which is quite dramatic if you attempt this move.

[ladamson]

>A knife edge is when a plane turns at a 90 degree bank and
>uses its rudder as an elevator to maintain altitude. In FSX,
>and pretty much any version of FS, the rudder is not
>calculated correctly as a aerodynamic surface... thus it is
>ineffective in correcting altitude loss, which is quite
>dramatic if you attempt this move.

The best "rudder" airplanes I've run into, for the last three versions of MSFS, are those from RealAir. It's been their specialty, which is why they slip so well. They also do aerobatic manuvers such as hammerheads; and you can even get a snap roll.

As to maintaining altitude in a knife edge, it's certainly aircraft dependent, as the fuselage becomes the only form of lift. That red & white replica Gee Bee racer that was on the airshow circuit until a few years ago, was one of the best at holding a reasonable altitude while in a knife edge.

Ladamson

[napamule2]

Ok. I get it. I don't get that 'fancy', but will try it. The key to doing anything like that is to have auto-coordination OFF. With it 'on' it will induce a 'roll' component, which you won't be able to correct (with just rudder) and thus you will probably 'lose it'. This seems to be much worse (stiffer moi's) in FSX than FS9, too.

Yes, it was ME that uploaded that 'improved air' file. I think it's an improvement, but then it MAY need work to be able to do a knife edge. (It involves: rudder, lateral inertia, roll center, yaw center, rudder control factor, yaw stability, yaw stability factor, pitch stability factor, and pitch damper, etc, in air file. Maybe balance too (ie: fuel, load, engine placement). Give me a week. 1 knife edge coming up.
Chuck B
napamule

[SPOFF]

Larry: Youv'e just brought back old memories. I remember the first time I saw Delmar Benjamin fly that plane at "SUN and FUN" back in the late eighties. He did a "Knife Edge" the full length of the field at maybe 50 feet above the ground. And this in a plane with a reputation for killing almost every pilot that ever flew one except Jimmy Doolittle. MY FAVORITE "Must See" at any airshow. SPOFF