Give us FS with guns

[DanWalloch]

Now why would M$ combine to titles in one, they would lose money...

[Piper_Pilot]

I got a question, what if they do this, and on VATSIM or other Multiplayer network, we get a hot shot 13 year old pilot going around shooting down peaceful aircraft? What would be done?

[kurtvoss]

kick/ban

[DanWalloch]

M$ I'm sure would have a friendly fire option for Multiplayer. But yes, people would go around shooting down AI. WE DON'T NEED TO GIVE IN TO CHILDISH BEHAVIORS!

[lnuss]

There are plenty of combat sims already -- we certainly don't need the disk space and resources (and development time and effort) wasted on this when there are so many other things that could be done, such as improving multiplayer (for one example).

[haje]

I wouldn't mind it being there hidden somewhere in the sim for those who want it, but as soon as it would cost even one lousy frame per second, I'd want to turn it off.


regards,

HaJe


"Artificial flight may be defined as that form of aviation in which a man flies at will in any direction, by means of an apparatus attached to his body, the use of which requires dexterity of the user."

Otto Lilienthal, 1895

[MadMaxMerlin]

I want to put in my nickel’s worth and wish for the FS10 folks to add combat capability. Whether Microsoft puts damage profiles, exploding objects or combat missions in, or not, is not as important as giving FS10 the capability to handle all those aerial combat features. Let the third party freeware and payware community deliver the goods on aerial combat. After all, in FS9 we have outstanding multiplayer features, right. So, in FS10, let’s take it to the next level.

Can you imagine flying a strike package over Iraq, Iran, North Korea with your buddies flying in different aircraft, all coordinating together to complete the mission? Better yet, when you call, "Fox 1", you actually see a Sidewinder come off the rail and watch your "pal" in his MiG-29 disappear in a virtual fireball. Or, vice versa.

Missions could be as simple as a combat air patrol (CAP) or as complicated as a full-blown, all out air war strike package. Not this silly arcade stuff like we see in so many other modern and warbird combat sims, but “as real as it gets. AWACS controlling the air traffic. F-15 Eagles flying CAP. F-16s bombing targets. A-10’s busting tanks. JSTARs coordinating between the tank-killers and forward observers on the ground lasing targets. Hooyah! Now THAT’s what I’m talking about.

While a “CFS/FS merge would be a big culture change for older simmers, for whom the idea that Flight Simulator would never have guns has been an article of faith,” I have been lobbying our friends at Microsoft Game Studios for “Flight Simulator with guns” for years. CFS3 was a lot of fun but it certainly falls well short of a realistic combat flightsim experience. I’m not going to rag on CFS3 but issue a call to the community to let the Microsofties know whether you share my desire to have realistic combat aircraft and ordinace plus exploding object modeled in FS10. Or, at the very least, give the developers the tools to do that and I'm sure they will come up with some mind-blowing combat add-ons.

With all due respect to the FS non-combat purists, I’d like to point out that there is no law that says you must fly military aircraft, discharge ordinance just because the sim supports realistic modern air combat. If you want to fly airliners and peaceful aircraft, you should of course do that. I like flying for fun as well as blowing stuff up.

But, for those of us who like to light up targets and want to see missiles come off the rails, combining the robust realism of FS10 with modern air combat ordinance and exploding targets would be fantastic. After all, I too am a Microsoftie. I want it all and I want it on my favorite flightsim platform which is Microsoft Flight Simulator. I find it a serious pain in the six, as well as my wallet, to have to swiitch from FS9 to LOMAC, Falcon 4, CFS3 and IL2 Pacific Fighters to get my aerial combat adrenaline fix.

I’ve been a die-hard FS and CFS flightsimmer since it was invented way back in the “Trash” 80 days. And I still prefer Microsoft Flight Simulator to all the other flightsims that are on the market today. Although I must admit a grudging respect for Falcon 4, IL-2 and LOMAC and enjoy a mission or two with those sims. I would prefer flying both civilian flights and combat missions with a single sim. Even if it cost more to buy it. After all, I spent $50 for FS2004, $30 for CFS3, $50 for IL-2 and LOMAC, plus abother $25 for Falcon 4. So, that adds up to more than $200 just to fly peacefully and also indulge my “blood lust”. Even if Microsoft combined the two and sold FS10 for say $80, it still would leave $120+ in my pocket.

I am convinced that FS with guns would yank the market away from IL-2, Falcon 4 and LOMAC. Imagine the excitement of realistically flying a modern air combat mission. You have a very busy time on the flight deck in modern air combat. After shooting your F-14 Tomcat, F/A-18 or JSF fighter-bomber off the deck of an aircraft carrier, you need to navigate to target and coordinate with AWACS and JSTARS en route before you can lock target and fire your Phoenix missile. This puts a whole new spin on combat ATC and it would be a challenge to model, but a delight to fly.

You want to fly the long hauls? How about a long haul bombing mission in a B-2 Stealth Bomber from Whiteman AFB in Missouri to Kosovo, Kabul or Iraq. With mutliple aerial refuelings along the way, some of those mission last up to 44.5 hours (that's the current record). After all that flying, the least you can do is get a little thrill watching the oridnace drop and obliterate your targets.

FS with guns would also be a bonanza for developers, both payware and freeware. While we already have fantastic military freeware such as Kirk Olsson’s F-16 and even more fabulous payware such as the F/A-18 from Aerial Foundry, the F-104 Starfighter from Captain Sim, The Aerosoft A-10, RAzbam's Skyhawks and many others – the ordinance is all show, no go. I want to dodge triple-A threats and SAMs that are really coming up at me. If I’m flying an F-117 Night Hawk, I want to feel what it’s really like to evade threats behind a hole in the sky.
When flying a Tomcat, I want to lock target, see the missile come off the rails when I call “Fox 1” and watch my target go down in flames.

Imagine the artistry required to not only model the airplane and panel, but also to faithfully model the laser guided weapons, JDAMS, A2A, A2G, A2S missiles, JSTARS missions, AWACS ATC and all the rest. You can get a taste of it in LOMAC, but I think FS10 with guns could take us to a much higher level of realism both in the cockpit and on the ground.

While flying historical missions over Europe and the Pacific re-creating World War II missions is always a thrill, I want to fly today’s air combat missions in today’s modern combat aircraft. And not just the jets. A truly realistic sim of Apache Longbow and Black Hawk helicopters would be sensational. So far, all attempts at doing that are honorable mentions but no one has truly nailed it. What’s more, if you have it all in FS10, the convenience alone is worth the price of admission.

I would like to experience what it’s really like to “go downtown” over Baghdad or take out a nuke facility in Iran. Or, at least experience those missions as real as it gets with Flight Simulator.

Flying a CFS3 B-17 through German flak so thick you can walk on it is always a serious sim challenge, but doing it without working panels makes it a spectator sport and flying air combat without using weapons is like kissing your sister.

I would like to experience what it was like to go downtown in a Phantom or Thud over Hanoi and Haiphong during the Vietnam War. Or drive a BUFF over the North during Operation Linebacker. I want to fly the Bone (B-1B) on nape-of-the-earth low-level penetration missions and see if I can put 5000 pound bunkerbusters on target. What's more, I want to do it with my pals on the Internet, in full voice communication with them, guided by another pilot in the AWACS and, just for giggles, able to communicate with and be directed by another flightsimmer in his Aegis Cruiser CIC. Aircraft, ships, ordinace with a virtual cockpit view of the laser seeker imaging, and all the rest. Remember, this is a "Wish List." I can dream, can't I? :-)

In this veteran flightsimmer’s opinion, there is really only one team that could deliver that sort of extremely sophisticated flightsim realism. Modern air combat is complicated stuff and I cannot wait to see what our friends at Microsoft could do with all that if they choose to take this old flightsimmer’s advice. For the Microsofties who read this, I have lots of emails from avid Flight Simulator fans who think the same thing. And for those flightsimmers who read this, let the Microsoft team know if you agree that FS10 should be FS with guns. Just put your comments and opinions in this forum. We know that the Flight Simulator people read every word and appreciate your input and feedback.

[Hrdina]

>There are plenty of combat sims already -- we certainly don't
>need the disk space and resources (and development time and
>effort) wasted on this when there are so many other things
>that could be done, such as improving multiplayer (for one
>example).

Precisely. Even MS have limited resources, so let them be spent on the things that are central to FS and leave combat to the people who do that well.

[jcmissionary]

Keep your guns out of my civilian flight simulator, thank you very much.

[RyanbATC]

I agree totally...