About DME updating (CIVA INS)

[Xender]

Hi to all!

Fist, Sorry for my bad english, only spanish (And bad english) here :S

I have a little problem with the navigation system (Civa INS 1.4), i have the manual and (i think) i understand it well. i can setup de unit and complete a entire flight only using the unit. i know how to do dme updating using a VOR, etc etc, But i have a problem... If im flying over the sea (No VOR available to update the unit) i can't update the unit manually without getting the error that means that the plane is more than 3nm from the coordinates that i put.

In order to do it successful i need to do these steps in order:

1)Pause the sim
2)while paused: SHIFT+Z and copy the actual coordinates.
3)Do the "Manual DME update" procedure (With the sim paused)
4)Unpause the sim and all is ok...

I don't like to do it in that way, cause is unrealistic. In real life the pilots can't pause the flight.

I think that the problem is that while im overflying the FIX over the sea and doing the procedure to update the unit manually, the aircraft continues flying, and by the time when i end the procedure, the plane is too far fron the fix, an that causes the error. This is with dual INS. Maybe is too much workload for only one people... I can't think how to do it fast with tripe INS... I try to do it as fast as i can :-S. That is my theory.

But, how can i do it without pausing the sim?

Thanks for any help, and please please please, sorry for my bad english... :-)

[Axxe73]

Hi,
actually your english is not that bad.
Personally, but this is only my point of view, I don't think real pilots use to manually update the INS. The Concorde, for example, used to be always in range of some VORs although flying across the ocean.
But I'm curious about which routing you were flying for so much time that the INS lost completely its accuracy.


Cheers
Lorenzo

[Xender]

Hi! and thanks for your answer!.

An example of a route can be MDSD (Santo domingo) to KFJK (New York). I can do it in one of two ways:

Oceanic:
---------
Plan:

I just cant do it in that way, the dual INS lost accuracy in the first hour of flight, even faster if the weather is bad. That route is the most short way to go, but i will be in troubles with a dual engine failure (I hope not to see it :-P). The flight itself is about 4 hours long or so.

Over land:
----------
Plan:

This is the only way i can do it without pausing the sim, cause i can do DME Update via VOR stations. But is by far the longer way nearly 300nm longer than the oceanic route.

About the concorde and DME Updating... The largest range VOR that i know are about 195nm, so i think the concorde need to do manual DME Updates over the flight. Also think in those 747's (100 and 200) that fly over the pacific, or over inhabited africa terrain, i think they need to update the units manually.

But, as i hate FMC's and those modern stuff, INS is the way to go for me :P

Can anyone tell me how to do DME Update without pausing the sim? Thanks! :-)

[Axxe73]

Well, actually this is a question for real pilot and I'm not unfortunately.;(
Anyway 195 NM is just a limit within FS, I have heard that in reality you could catch the radio beacon well beyond 200 NM.

Hope someone will get you more useful info.

Cheers,
Lorenzo

[Xender]

Come on guys! no one knows the answer?? anyone using CIVA INS??

[ggi]

Abridged the CIVA INS manual...

During flight in NAV mode, over flying a Fix which for which you have an exact position you can manually update the INS present position. NOTE: the REMOTE switches are ineffective for manual updating. Coordinates must be loaded separately in all INS units.

1. Switch OFF Autopilot NAV Mode (Use AP HDG to steer aircraft meantime).

2. Set all INS Data Selectors to POS

3. When exactly overflying the FIX, All HOLD Switches/Lights Push/On (a right mouse click on will HOLD all 3 INS's at the same time).

4. The CDUs displays will be frozen showing the Displayed positions.

5. Insert the corrected Latitude and Longitude coordinates for the waypoint you know the position of.

6.HOLD Switches/Lights Push/Out - You have now updated the INS position fix.

Verify that position data are unfrozen and monitor flight instruments. Go back to AP and select INS NAV instead of HDG.

That's it!!
Gary

[ggi]

Err.. I've just told you how to overhead update - for DME update, go to the same CIVA INS operations manual in the CIVA/Documents folder and print out the instructions there. It seems quite lengthy, but I'm sure on the route you're flying you'll have the time to read it before getting too off track.

PS are you waiting for all 3 INS counters to drop from 95 to 05 when warming up INS? The lower the number the more accurately the INS will stay on course. I managed across the atlantic ocean with no updating until I reached land. You should be able to achieve similar.

Gary
Sorry for not answering question first time!

[Xender]

Thanks!

I understand now!

[ggi]

Xender,

Do you have proper aeronautical charts for your route?

If yes - select a VOR/DME - establish your fix using bearing/distance from the VOR and mark the position on chart. Then read the LAT/LONG at the point marked, HOLD the 3 INS, enter the position into INS, and release the HOLD.

Not perfect, but better than nothing.

Gary