Need Pro Aircraft

[baddadnv]

Hey all,

Let's think about something here.......while many have asked for Pro components, and many more will......One of the most commonly used suggestions, by folks here on the Forum, to help the person looking for Pro components, is to tell them to return it to the store, for possible trade.....or SELL standard to someone, then purchase Pro.

Is SELLING FS standard, not more of a crime, than even sending and recieving pro files over the internet?

Let's look at how MS would view these situations.....A person buys standard (MS gets their money), then this person wants pro files from someone else who has purchased pro (again, MS got their money)......not to big a deal, only lost out on difference between std and pro.

Now if someone buys std, and then SELLS there std edition to someone else, MS gets no money from the costomer BUYING that disc!.......Seems to me that MS would be far more conserned, with the suggestions of selling std to someone else, than they would be with file sharing?

Just something that I think about, everytime someone jumps down a persons throat, for wanting Pro files, but yet they suggest a far greater crime as a resolution?

Randy Burton

[drobson]

Don't think it's a problem. Supposing I go to a Ford Motor Company dealer and buy a new Ford. After I've owned it a little while, I decide that I don't like it, so I offer it up for sale, and then go buy a Dodge or Chevy, or even a different model by Ford. Nothing wrong in that, so why should it be any different with a couple of CDs? If someone is unhappy with the Standard, certainly they would un-install it before the installed the Pro version.
Darrell

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[Flying_Turnip]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-02 AT 03:51PM (EDT)[/font][p]Selling something you own is not a crime. If it was, websites like eBay and others would be the largest crime wave to hit the world in the history of the planet.

"Let's look at how MS would view these situations.....A person buys standard (MS gets their money), then this person wants pro files from someone else who has purchased pro (again, MS got their money)......not to big a deal, only lost out on difference between std and pro"

No, Microsoft lost out on the money difference between sale prices of Pro and Std.

"Now if someone buys std, and then SELLS there std edition to someone else, MS gets no money from the costomer BUYING that disc!"

No agian. If someone buys Std, MS get their money. If someone then sells their std, either there going to buy the pro (which MS would gain profit on) or the person chooses not to buy a new simulator in which case MS would only lose out on a sale that never would have existed in the first place. So they don't lose any money, thus explaining why it is not illegal.

"Is SELLING FS standard, not more of a crime, than even sending and recieving pro files over the internet?"

No.

I suggest you go to law school before attempting to point out the legalities of certain situations.

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[lifejogger]

Your MS flight simulator CD is like a music CD that you buy. Once you have bought it you can resale or even give it away to someone but you can not copy it for resale or copy it and give it away. The idea is that the manufacturing make a 1,000,000 CDs so there should only be 1,000,000 CDs on the market not 1,020,000. The extra 20,000 that were copied represents lost revenue to the manufacturer. And that is why we have copyright laws.


Old Planes are better.
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John B

[Jeff S KDTW]

Hi Randy -

I just saw your post and have been very impressed with many of the answers you have already received. However, it seems like you have been putting a lot of thought into this, so I thought I'd try to provide you with a bit more detail in the explanation. I realize that most people's eyes glaze over on subjects like this, so I will keep it short and simple. ;-)

Under the “First Sale” doctrine, which is codified in the Copyright Act, the owner of a particular lawful copy of a work (i.e. software, book, record, painting, etc.) is permitted to “sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy” without the permission of the copyright owner. This provision thus enables wholesalers to sell copies to retailers, libraries to lend copies to patrons, and individuals who have lawfully acquired copies of works to give them to friends or family. The doctrine states (with some exceptions) that the copyright owner’s exclusive distribution right no longer applies to a particular copy once it has been sold the first time.

HOWEVER, the First Sale doctrine has never allowed someone who owns a particular copy to make further copies of it without the permission of the copyright owner. The most fundamental right of a copyright owner – to make reproductions of his work – continues to apply even after first sale of a particular copy.

In the context of software, one who buys a legitimate copy of a videogame in CD format, for instance, has the same right to re-sell, lend, or give away that copy as someone who buys a book in hard copy format. But the buyer does not have the right, under the First Sale doctrine, to make additional copies of the CD product to sell, lend, or give away, nor to allow others to do so by making them available in digital form on Internet sites.

Hope this clears it up. :-)

Regards,

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[drobson]

it, straight from the horses' er, mouth!:-)
Thanks Jeff for that answer.
Darrell

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[baddadnv]

Darrell, Can't use your Ford car example. Once you buy that new Ford, ALL the components are yours to do with as you please. Could you sell the bucket seats, because you found better ones. Yes? Well buy purchasing MS Sim, you do not own all the components. This is verified by the very fact that people (including myself) get upset about when someone wants pro files.


Rick, Mellow out!......What was my first sentence in my post?....I said " Let's think about something"......I didn't say I was going to point out the legalities of the matter, nor did I say I was 100% correct......Of coarse after reading YOUR reply, this issue is completly resolved! (LMAO)

Randy Burton

[baddadnv]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jul-08-02 AT 04:46PM (EDT)[/font][p]Thanks all,

Was still confussed, was about to repost, but reread responses......Found the answer to what I was still confussed about in Jeff's last sentence > " nor to allow others to do so buy making then available in digital form on the internet".

Well now as I proof read my reply.....maby I am still confussed, and maby I should take a break first (LOL), but isn't downloading a song, digital?.....How does that differ from a PRO file?

Edit > Using John's (lifejogger) post, which makes very good sense......still don't understand the diff between the two. By sending a beech Baron over the internet, one is not creating an additional disc?

Randy Burton

[bhebert]

Jeff, correct me if I am wrong, but if you sell or give away your licensed copy of a software, you also forfeit the license to use it on your computer. (i.e. you cannot retain a copy the software on your computer once you have relinquished ownership.)

Brent

[Jeff S KDTW]

Brent -

That is correct--you have purchased ONE COPY. If you choose to sell, give, or lend your copy to another, you can NOT retain a copy because you would have effectively copied the software, which is generally permitted only by the copyright owner.

This is a very sticky topic now-a-days, and is hotly debated in the courts and on the corners. Many software companies would like their EULA or shrink-wrap licenses to be controlling. Therefore, the interpretation would conclude that there was no first sale, therefore the First Sale doctrine can not apply (read: "purchaser" can not transfer any copy to others). However, many advocacy groups and buyers argue that there can be no license (read: EULA and/or shrink-wrap license is unenforceable) without bargaining and mutual assent. The process of purchasing software (i.e. go to store, buy software, no opportunity to negotiate terms of license, get home, and only then are you able to review the license) does not lends itself to a licensing interpretation.

MANY courts in the US have held that EULA and/or shrink-wrap licenses are unenforceable and unconscionable for the reasons stated above.

So, until a final ruling is handed down, the accepted interpretation is to apply conventional copyright laws and, thus, apply the First Sale doctrine in such cases. However, I'll say it again, this is a very sticky situation and the conclusions often depend on the EXACT fact scenario (i.e. did you transfer the original CD, a copy of the CD, or zip it up and send it???)

Regards,

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