Converted - Now I'm a true believer!

[jdyoung]

I was once like many of you - convinced that the 737 autoland feature was sadistically malfunctioning on my system. It HAS to be a bug! Localizer tracked just fine, glidescope coming alive....captured and....Plunge to the fiery death! Left only with the incessant call of "glidescope, glidescope" berating me. My sullen face illuminated by the blood red bar at the top of the screen reading one word that fuels my smoldering frustration - CRASH! Huh?! What happened? I've read the manuals...more than once. More than ten times actually.

So, I got serious. I found three "P"s that helped me the most - Practice, Patience, and Pictorial. Thank you to Peter McLeland for his pictorial descent you can get here: http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/dcforum...D3&archive=yes

It gave me the jumpstart and motivation to try again...and again...and again. I found my main problem was that I was entering the glidescope capture with too high an airspeed. When I slowed things down a bit, that helped. When I paid closer attention to flap settings at critical speed, that helped. When I made sure the aircraft was firmly locked on localizer before capturing glidescope, that helped. When I dropped flaps 30 at glidescope capture that polished it up. In the end - smooth ride on a 3 degree slope all the way down to the TDZ.

Best of all, I could repeat this process over and over and over with the same results each time. Restart FS - same result. Reboot computer - same result. Conclusion - NOT the computer! NOT a bug!

Take heart fellow simmers. It CAN be done! After several months of failed attempts, it made a believer out of me!

Good luck,
John

[teropa]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-02 AT 03:30AM (EDT)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-02 AT 03:23 AM (EDT)[/font]

John,

You call it a working GS capture if you have to be at Vref in order to capture the beam ?? Regarding the flap settings: the flaps have their speed restrictions and that's all there is to it. If you obey them, the flaps should have no effect on your GS capture. In fact, different airlines have very different SOPs as to when to select which flap setting and so on (of course taking into account the flap speed limits). IRL this has no bearing on the issue.

In real-life, speed restrictions very often make jets maintain up to 180 (and above) to the marker. Imagine if, in a very bad weather, you had to throw the A/P to trash bin, as you wouldn't probably be able to get the plane to Vref until 2-3 nm out (and the ap to capture GS) ! What's the point in going automatic 2 miles out, as the MDA is probably just around the corner, and most pilots fly at least the last 400ft by hand anyway => approach would have to be flown by hand from the start, not much help from the autopilot in the bad weather there... Now, I don't want any "you should learn how to land the jet by hand" -comments, because 95% of the time I don't even use the APP-function, let alone autoland. But the fact remains, that if it's supposed to work like the real thing, the B737 autopilot would be a serious safety hazard... and we all know that it isn't. Think about it.

cheers,
Tero


edit: I'd like to add that the DF737 seems to work for some quite satisfactorily, GIVEN the absolutely right configuration for _crossing the fence_, i.e. speed/flaps/weight. Unfortunately IRL the plane is not in the "threshold-configuration" 8-10 miles out, and should NOT be. The DF737 AP(APP) doesn't seem to be working outside this envelope, which makes it unrealistic, period.

-----------------------------
- roger, Roger.
- What's our vector, Victor ?

[rbbarker]

How about use my checklist and see how that works for your autoland?

Boyd Barker, A6475
Senior Command Captain
BOS Hub Manager
WestWind Airlines

DF737 Checklist-------------> http://home.houston.rr.com/checklist/checklist.html

[faamecanic]

Oh no..... here we go again :)

<No comment>

claude

[petermcleland]

John,

Glad the pictorial helped you :-) I think the subject has become a bit of a sore point around here :-roll Lets you and me and the other believers carry on enjoying our autolands quietly :-lol

Regards,

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...986752861a.jpg

[faamecanic]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-02 AT 08:22AM (EDT)[/font][p]Autoland?! Whats that?! I hand fly my DF 737 on the route from Atl to DFW (3 hr flight).... does the DF737 even have an AP :) :-roll
When it comes to autoland...I just accept the DF737 for what it is, a FS2000 conversion that does not behave well (Autoland wise) on GS capture... so I Hand fly it. No big deal, and the panel is still the best out there!

Claude

[OS737]

>John,
>
>You call it a working GS
>capture if you have to
>be at Vref in order
>to capture the beam ??
>Regarding the flap settings: the
>flaps have their speed restrictions
>and that's all there is
>to it. If you obey
>them, the flaps should have
>no effect on your GS
>capture. In fact, different airlines
>have very different SOPs as
>to when to select which
>flap setting and so on
>(of course taking into account
>the flap speed limits). IRL
>this has no bearing on
>the issue.
>
>In real-life, speed restrictions very often make jets maintain up to 180 (and above) to the marker. Imagine if, in a very bad weather, you had to throw the A/P to trash bin, as you wouldn't probably be able to get the plane to Vref until 2-3 nm out (and the ap to capture GS) ! What's the point in going automatic 2 miles out, as the MDA is probably just around the corner, and most pilots fly at least the last 400ft by hand anyway => approach would have to be flown by hand from the start, not much help from the autopilot in the bad weather there... Now, I don't want any "you should learn how to land the jet by hand" -comments, because 95% of the time I don't even use the APP-function, let alone autoland. But the fact remains, that if it's supposed to work like the real thing, the B737 autopilot would be a serious safety hazard... and we all know that it isn't. Think about it.
>
>cheers,
>Tero
>
>
>edit: I'd like to add that
>the DF737 seems to work
>for some quite satisfactorily, GIVEN
>the absolutely right configuration for
>_crossing the fence_, i.e. speed/flaps/weight.
>Unfortunately IRL the plane is
>not in the "threshold-configuration" 8-10
>miles out, and should NOT
>be. The DF737 AP(APP) doesn't
>seem to be working outside
>this envelope, which makes it
>unrealistic, period.

CONGRATULATIONS! A realistic comment at last!

W.

[OS737]

>Autoland?! Whats that?! I
>hand fly my DF 737
>on the route from Atl
>to DFW (3 hr flight)....
>does the DF737 even have
>an AP :) :-roll
>When it comes to autoland...I just
>accept the DF737 for what
>it is, a FS2000 conversion
>that does not behave well
>(Autoland wise) on GS capture...
>so I Hand fly it.

Agreed!
> No big deal, and
>the panel is still the
>best out there!
That´s debatable. Good graphics but everything considered there´s at least one better panel available...
>
>Claude

[newguy]

Anybody seen that beaten dead horse lately?

[F16_Driver]

>John,
>
>Glad the pictorial helped you :-)
>I think the subject has
>become a bit of a
>sore point around here :-roll
>Lets you and me and
>the other believers carry on
>enjoying our autolands quietly :-lol
>
>
>Regards,
>
>http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...986752861a.jpg

Im with you, Peter :)

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