Runways Floating, Parking Rotated...

[tgibson]

Hi all,

Newbie here; sorry for asking questions I'm sure have been asked before. Since my favorite scenery program (ASD) is long dead, and FSSC doesn't seem to be moving forward much, I thought I would look into SGX as a way to create older 1950's airports in true FS2004 format, along with an easy way to add library object details to the scenery. I figured I would use default MS objects at first, and later create some of my own with FSDS2 or GMAX. I have already used AFCAD to extensively modify many of these airports.

So as a test, I decompiled a few bgl files to see how that worked. When I use the Import BGl function in SGX, I keep getting Error 75, file not found, and SGX quits. I do get the XML file created though. Is there a way to fix this problem? It's rather tiring to have to restart the program each time.

So, I decompiled my AFCAD file, as well as an AP... file for my home base, KSAC (Sacramento, CA). Both loaded into SGX just fine. After loading my modified AFCAD XML file I checked the runways and they were at 7.32 meters, so I set the Scenery to that altitude also. However, when I go to the airport, my taxiways are at about 7 meters elevation, but my runways are floating at around 30 meters!! All the rest of the scenery looks OK (visually). Is there an elevation setting I'm not finding or doing something incorrectly?

Then I loaded up some AI aircraft, and they were all sitting at 90 degrees to what they were set to in AFCAD. I had to subtract 90 degrees from each parking spot heading to get them correct. Is there something I did wrong in the decompile step?

Finally, can someone tell me step by step how to create a taxiway? I'm not really sure how to do that. I've read the tutorials, but most of the rest of the help seems to be for AFW, not SGX.

Finally, I'm sure it's in there somewhere, but how do I add the default FS2004 library objects like the baggage tugs and carts? I try to add a Library Object, press the Select Object button, and don't see them on the list. Also, most of those don't show up after I add them (although I now know why from the other thread).

PS. If you haven't done it before, add the space shuttle to your scenery and take a look. The launch complex is HUGE!!

I know SGX is still a work in progress, but I hope to be able to add some FS2004 advanced buildings and library objects to my airport soon!

Thanks so much,

[Jaybird]

Hi Tom G...

Re:>"Newbie here; sorry for asking questions I'm sure have been asked before."<

Ha! -- Newbie indeed... Judging by your previous works (and thanks for sharing your website link), I wish I were such a "newbie" :-).

Re:>" ..... I thought I would look into SGX as a way to create older 1950's airports in true FS2004 format, along with an easy way to add library object details to the scenery."<

I think that as SGX continues to evolve, you'll find it an excellent choice for doing that. It's already (with the latest build 26) capable of doing the SDK directed airport facilities with almost the same capibilities as AFCAD 2.xx does. In that regard, the only thing missing in SGX i've noticed 'up front' is the ability to "Randomize" parking indexes after a sequential set has been created and AFCAD's highly appreciated <Undo> & <Redo> toolbar buttons. As Tom Hiscox continues SGX development, I expect features like this will probably be added someday. Lets face it, for a Freeware program SGX has made great strides forward in adopting M$'s XML coded stuff for FS9 and future FS releases. I think, compared to the staff of programmers employed at MS, Tom Hiscox is doing a fabulous job in trying to get us 'undergarduates' a GUI that's approaching 'World-Class'.

Make no mistake about it: AFCAD -- Is A GREAT, program that has 'set the pace' to allow us to implement AI compilant code into our projects and It's developer is highly-commended for it's simplicity and user-friendliness and we should be very thankful it's a freeware progaram.

Re:>"I figured I would use default MS objects at first, and later create some of my own with FSDS2 or GMAX. I have already used AFCAD to extensively modify many of these airports."<

You can certainly already do these things in SGX, except for the FSDS2 objects. GMAX & FSDS2 must be considered differently, as in apples and oranges. GMAX 1.2 (with latest GMAX SDK) exported objects are indeed compatible because it's exported code for FS9 (scenery and/or aircraft .mds files are coded in XML. FSDS2's output is in the beloved SCASM format and it can still be brought into FS9, however, it must be done with a SCASM interfacing program or by hand coding to a library object and using a peculiar .API macro to call it.

To add to the confusion, pre-FS9 GMAX objects must be brought into FS9 either by reloading the object's .gmax file into GMAX 1.2 and re-exporting it with the latest MS Makemdl format to yield compatible XML code for making it into a library object and then calling that object with SGX's <Create 3D Object> (preferred)...

OR by using the FSRegen software to convert the SCASM output from pre-FS9 config GMAX into a library object with a calling .api listing.

I have to run now to keep an appointment but hopefully, will return in a few hours to further comment on your post...

J.R.

[wsieffert]

Hi Tom,

I would look at two areas in SGX. Press the Sections, Scenery Data, and ensure the Airport Reference Point data, especially MSL altitude and MAGVAR, are the same as your AFCAD. You might even check the airfield's default AFCAD for these values. Next, press Sections, Airport Data, and ensure the the Airport Reference Point data are the same values.

Look at a runway altitude. If you select Mean Sea Level, then the value should equal the airport altitude you set in the Airport Data section. I am not sure the Above ground level works works for runways, since runways require an altitude to be specified. There is also something peculiar going on with the feet/meters. If I place it to feet and put in foot values, it still converts it to meters in the XML. If I place it to meters and put in meter values, it uses meters but if I look at the feet/meter window, it is back to feet. Something Tom Hiscox will have to look at.

If you select an object, you have a choice of Above Ground Level ( altitudeIsAgl = "TRUE"). In this case alt = "0.0". If you choose altitudeIsAgl = "FALSE", then you would have to specify the altitude of the object. I guess this provides the ability to stack one object atop another.

As far as importing. I have had, on occasion, a file would not import. For some reason the decompile caused an NDB to be within the <Airport element. NDBs should be external to the <Airport element as referenced by the BGLCOMP.XSD and BGLCOMP_SDK_DOC. I was able to cut and paste the <NDB element outside of the <Airport element and the import succeeded. SGX prefers importing DD.ddd vice DD MM.mm or DD MM SS.ss

Lastly, I would use both of the decompilers BGLX150.ZIP and NewBGLAnalyze*.zip to compare results. I was doing a special project today and found one caused many problems on recompile and the other didn't. Alas, the world of reverse engineering. That is the main reason I recommend NOT decompiling a default file, make changes and compile the file with the same name to replace the default file.

I also found parking and taxiway signs rotated. I don't understand the reason. Since I had to move the signs and parking spots anyway, I just changed them to the heading I needed.

I am a little confused about the present internal Library Object List. If you look in your SGX root folder, you should find, LibraryObjectsList.txt, search for card reveals:

c545a2a511d2e2ec1000849c2ae60c5a , veh_air_bagcart3
c545a2a611d2e2ec1000849c2ae60c5a , veh_air_bagcart2
c545a2a711d2e2ec1000849c2ae60c5a , veh_air_bagcart1

Why not all the library objects appear in the internal list, I don't know. I know these were in previous loads because I picked some of them for tests.

Since most of the taxiways were imported, I only had to move them to the correct location. For missing taxiways, I generally use the Create taxiway points, then create taxiway segments between the points. If you click on the two points, it usually enters them into the boxes of the taxiway segment create.

I have also used the Create taxiway to some degree. It will make a two point taxiway, then you can press the INS on the top menubar to make additional points. If you lose the blue line and start getting a hashed yellow line, you have problems. You also have to cause this Create Taxiway to convert to Taxiway Points and Taxiway Segments. The easiest way is to compile and the conversion will take place.

I would make a test airport and try the different functions. My test airport is KissMe International (KXXX) located near the Space Center and Melbourne, FL. I try out all the functions at this airport. I still have the old AFW Testisle Tutorial in the South Atlantic which I use now and again.

W. Sieffert

[Jaybird]

Continuing from message No. 1:

This is a long reply but hopefully, it will serve to show how to create the taxiway systems fairly easily.

Re:>"So as a test, I decompiled a few bgl files to see how that worked. When I use the Import BGl function in SGX, I keep getting Error 75, file not found, and SGX quits. I do get the XML file created though. Is there a way to fix this problem? It's rather tiring to have to restart the program each time... So, I decompiled my AFCAD file, as well as an AP... file for my home base, KSAC (Sacramento, CA). Both loaded into SGX just fine. After loading my modified AFCAD XML file I checked the runways and they were at 7.32 meters, so I set the Scenery to that altitude also. However, when I go to the airport, my taxiways are at about 7 meters elevation, but my runways are floating at around 30 meters!! All the rest of the scenery looks OK (visually). Is there an elevation setting I'm not finding or doing something incorrectly?".<

First, I'm using SGX as it develops, to see if I can create projects that are fully FS9 AI compatible and also that can place all default scenery objects, user written XML objects AND gmax 1.2 objects that use the latest makemdl.exe into a scenery project, I 'discipline myself' to not use AFCAD 2.21's active .bgl file for the project (probably would be AF2_KSAC.bgl in your example), other than to use it's 'Fault Finder' utility to proof the SGX work. My goal is to use only SGX to do the same thing AFCAD 2.21 is doing and in addition, be able to place (any) other XML coded scenery objects beside airport "facilities", using only SGX to make the entire project. Of course if one were to make and release a project in which he wanted to also add SCASM coded objects, that can be done using AFW as an object placing tool and placing those SCASM coded .bgls into the same active scenery folder where XML coded .bgls reside.

Although I've done the decompile/recompile thing you (and others) are talking about, I don't presently take the approach of doing that within SGX -- mainly because I don't want to have to manage all the many objects found within a decompiled AP....bgl file that are irrevealant to my project's single airport -- so I do it differently, depending on what it is that I need to accomplish.

ie: If I only want to delete or modify some taxiway signs or add buildings or other objects seen in FS that is not presently a part of SGX's library of objects or creation of a building I need is not possible using advanced buildings (but included in the AP...bgl), then I might seek-out and manipulate the .mdl code that MS (may be) using in that AP...bgl, to examine and possibly create a unique library object that can be placed anywhere -- or a location specific macro calling the object. Such a process was discovered and reported by Dick Ludowise and can place probably any object anywhere in the FS World by creating a library object for it and referencing the specific .mdl file that's built into the AP...bgl. A link to info on this is below:

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?...ng_type=search

Correcting some object's location to where one knows it should be as opposed to where MS has put it in FS can also be done in a simpler way by excludng the original and creating a macro derived from a portion of the AP...bgl to use a corrected Lat/Long for the object needing corrective action. To do this, only the applicable portion of the decompiled AP...bgl that contains the object and it's faulty locaton data would be cut/pasted into a notepad file and the Lat/Long corrected to where the object should be located. Then, the typical XML header and footer is pasted-to the new file and the resulting macro can be manually compiled using bglcomp.exe.

Re:>"Then I loaded up some AI aircraft, and they were all sitting at 90 degrees to what they were set to in AFCAD. I had to subtract 90 degrees from each parking spot heading to get them correct. Is there something I did wrong in the decompile step?"<

Hmmm, I don't understand this one. If I adjust the parked airplane symbol to the heading I want on the SGX scenery map and compile to bgl, then when I open AFCAD 221 to <Fault Find> the project airport, all planes depicting the parking area heading are pointing to the same heading I created on the SGX workspace?? W. Sieffert has reported that there's also a 90 degree offset specified in the XML source code for taxiway signs and that may be true, however, it's apparently inconsequential, since the end result is that the parked planes are heading exactly as placed. The 90 degree offset in the project's source code is therefore likely a 'Cartesian Type' offset that Tom Hiscox has found necessary to use with the present SGX operating system's VB code that drives the .sgx file which drives the .XML source code. Such "fudge factors" are sometimes used in early stages of a new OS development.

Re:>"Finally, can someone tell me step by step how to create a taxiway? I'm not really sure how to do that. I've read the tutorials, but most of the rest of the help seems to be for AFW, not SGX.

The presently existing tutorial for taxiway creation in SGX is not useful for FS9 and appears to be a remnant that was used in the older AFW programs. At this stage of SGX development, It's probably there only to provide a 'form' that can be edited later as time permits, for SGX definition needs.

First, although AFCAD does the workspace creating of taxiways differently than SGX, understanding what the AFCAD user manual says about the requirements for the different types of 'taxiway objects' should hopefully be understood.

For AI planes to operate on our project airports, we must have Runway taxiways that are located down the center of all active runways that become the path that AI planes must take while located on an runway that's active for AI traffic. Taxiway 'segments can be considered as 'stand-alone' segments objects that become seamlessly joined together to form functional taxiways whose centerlines are the 'taxi paths' for AI planes.

The center and edge yellow lines and the taxiway lighting on all taxiways, whether for runways or routing taxiways are drawn and 'blended' automatically by FS, depending on the configurations chosen in SGX's create windows. 'Runway taxiways' should be drawn with NO taxiway markings and no lighting selected, else markinigs and lighting on runways would not appear normal with the extra 'taxiway' type lines and lights drawn on them. AI traffic systems must also include 'Runway Hold-Short lines and (optionally) can include ILS Hold-Short lines. In SGX, these hold short lines area actually points defining the (runway) end of a taxiway segment and the user can choose to draw the Hold-Short lines either forward or reversed depending on the way the indexed points in it were sequenced when chosen.

All taxiways, whether for runways or normal taxiway 'routings' are comprised of 'Segments Between Points' with the points establishing the end locations for the many 'segments' needed in a runway and taxiway 'system' in a user designed or modified airport project. The term 'points', as used in SGX and the term 'Nodes' as used in AFCAD are for all practical purposes, the same in this regard. The MS bglcomp SDK uses the term 'Points' in it specifications for taxiways and the term 'Nodes' in it's specifications for waypoints. The following process is what I've used for creating fully AI compliant airport Runway, Taxiway and Parking systems:

In SGX, all 'points' will be shown listed as 'Indexed Nodes' starting with decimal number "0" when viewed from the menu bar <Sections\Taxiway Points> list. SGX now has a feature whereby clicking on a point, then clicking on a second point and then Right-Clicking and selecting <Create Taxi Segment> from the drop-down 'Create' options should automatically insert the last 2 points' clicked index numbers into the <Starting Taxi Point> and <End Taxi Point> selection boxes in the <Create Taxi Segment> window. If this feature doesn't work properly (I've seen some 'hiccups' here in pre-build 26 versions), users can always manually input the 'From' and 'To' points from dropdown lists within the <Create Taxi Segment> window.

PROCESS:

1. Create "Taxi Points" (Right-Click and select <Create Taxi Point>) at the center of each end of active runways and then create <Type>='RUNWAY' 'taxi segments'(Right-Click and select <Create Taxi Segment>) without lines or lights -- to connect these 'end points'. If the runway has long 'displaced thresholds' or 'overruns' then these <Type> = RUNWAY 'Taxi Segments' should be placed at their ends, same as with 'real' runways. Later in the process you will need to <Insert> (Insert key or <Ins> icon on toolbar) additional points in the runway Taxi segment(s) to accomodate other runway exit or entry 'Taxi Segments', each with a 'Hold-Short' segment. With default SGX colors chosen, this should create a "pinkish" colored line running down the centers of your runways.

NOTE: At this stage, an accurately scaled and located background bitmap is useful for speeding-up locating and creating all the rest of your needed 'taxi segments'. The FSUIPC locator feature of SGX can be used here, also. I usually use a background map for this because it can quickly be toggled off and on with the <Layers> icon on SGX's toolbar to get clearer detail of the SGX scenery map (the workspace display window).

2. Create a first non-runway 'Taxi Point' by Right-Click to locate it and select <Create Taxi Point> from the dropdown menu. This 'taxi point' should be located far enough from a runway's end point to be able to <Insert> another point necessary for a 'Hold-Short Taxi Segment',-- but located so the 'Hold-Short' point can be located approx 200 feet of the runway itself. Keep in mind that at any time, 'Taxi Points' can be selected and dragged to any location for purposes of affording more room to work and/or for final alignment of segments. All 'Taxi Segments' that connect to ends-of or exit/entry points of runways must use a 'Hold-Short Point' in a segment in order to be AI compliant.

3. Create a second non-runway 'Taxi Point' by Right-Click to locate and select <Create Taxi Point> from the dropdown menu, locating it ie at the other end of the above mentioned runway. Locate this 2nd point as if to access the other end of your runway.

4. Now, for creating the first 'TAXI Segment', focus back on step 2 above. Left-Click to select the first 'non-runway taxi point' you created. Then, Left-Click to select the 'Taxi Point' on/at the end of the runway nearest that 1st created 'Taxi Point', then, Right-Click and click <Create Taxi Segment> from the drop down menu. In the resulting 'Edit' window, choose the applicable parameters for this taxi segment, ie <Type=TAXI>, <Starting Taxi Point= (the first point you selected's index number)>, <End Taxi Point= (the 2nd point you selected's index number)>, <Surface>, <Width>, <Name> (can be left blank for now), <Lights> and <Left and Right edge marking types>. clicking <OK> should produce a red colored taxi segment connecting the first 'Taxi Point' made in (2) above to the nearest 'Taxi Point' on the runway.

5. Since this 'Taxi Segment' created in (4) above is a runway exit/entry route, A 'Hold-Short point' is required and must be <Inserted> and defined as a 'Hold-Short' point as follows: With this (step 4) segment selected (turns red), <Insert> another 'Point' (Insert key or <Ins> icon on the toolbar). In the resulting "Taxiway Point Edit Dialog" window, Tickmark <Point Type=Hold Short> and <Orientation=Forward>. This should produce the desired oriented 'Hold-Short Point' (or Node).

6. From this phase onwards, you can use the above methods to build your 'RUNWAY' and 'TAXI'segments including the required 'Hold-Short' points so as to fit the needs of your project. The only objects remaining to be created are the 'PARKING AREAS' and their connecting 'Taxi Segments'.

7. 'PARKING AREAS' are simply more 'Points' but with a different flavor -- they must be created using the Right-Click to locate and select <Create Taxi Parking Area> in SGX. The <Radius=>, <Orientation (or heading in compass degrees)=>, <Type=>, <Name=>, <Pushback=>, <Number=> and <Airline Code=> option parameters are set here for each Parking Area.

When Parking Areas are created without a connecting 'Taxi Segment', they can serve as populators of static AI planes, dependent upon the scheduling of traffic at your project airport. However, in most applications you'd probably want to connect them to 'Points' that you've inserted within your nearby 'Taxi Segments' otherwise, AI planes might just sit there and then disappear when their scheduled departure time came up. -- And finally, connect those inserted 'Points' in your taxiways to the 'PARKING AREAS', defining the 'Taxi segments' to be <Type=PARKING segments.


Re:>"Finally, I'm sure it's in there somewhere, but how do I add the default FS2004 library objects like the baggage tugs and carts? I try to add a Library Object, press the Select Object button, and don't see them on the list."<

In SGX, Right-Click to locate and select <Create 3D Object> from the drop down menu. In the resulting 'Create' window, DO NOT click the <Select Object> button. Simply paste the hex string that W. Sieffert gave you in message #2 to this thread (c545a2a511d2e2ec1000849c2ae60c5a) for a 3 cart baggabe train -- and if desired, paste-in the objects's name in the <Object Name> area, then compile the scenery and there you have it.


Re:>"PS. If you haven't done it before, add the space shuttle to your scenery and take a look. The launch complex is HUGE!!<"

You can control the <Scale> of such objects in the Create Window. Try <Scale=0.10> and see the difference.

J.R.

[tgibson]

Hi to both of you,

Thanks a bunch for your lengthy replies - they are very helpful. It will take a while to digest them and I have lots of other projects going too, so I will probably get back to this when I have the time.

While I can do a lot of other things, XML programming is not one of them. So I am hoping that SGX can let me avoid learning yet another language. So I am a newbie in this area at least!

A few comments:

I found the parking spots to be rotated by 90 degrees when I decompiled my AFCAD2 file into an XML file and imported it into SGX (you apparently went the other way?). I figured that importing my AFCAD2 file would be a way to have landmarks visible to be able to place buildings and library objects quickly and easily. I can always delete those AFCAD items later if I want to use AFCAD2 again to edit the file and then reimport.

Actually, what would be REALLY nice would be to be able to display the items in an XML file without it becoming part of my current SGX file (unless I want it to). ASD had a similar feature where it would display the current default (or addon) scenery on your screen, letting you build an "addon" bgl file which would add details to the existing airport. That would be really great - I could use AFCAD2 for things it does well, and SGX for the rest!

Thanks again,

[Jaybird]

The 'variation' of XML MS is using in FS9 does not require a lot of learning because it's pretty much "predefined" by it's unique interpreter (bglcomp.xsd) and exemplified in the SDK's FS2004 BGLCompSDK.doc. So, if you've done much SCASM work I think you'll find XML easy to apply. It's presently very limited though, having almost no terrain capabilities at all.

Regarding airport and traffic facilities, SGX and AFCAD 2XX do exactly the same thing using the same XML code elements. SGX is adding another level, that of placing 3D objects. AFCAD seems to be a fully-matured program using CAD techniques whereas SGX is in it's infancy and uses VB code as a 'go-between' to get an end result of doing the "geometery" needed by 'facilities' and additionally, to be an 'object placer'.

LOL, probably, your "going the other way" is where the 90 degree difference occurred. As mentioned, SGX's VB activity likely had to "make a little correction" there (as far as SGX was concerned). Things like that usually eventually get ironed-out and simplified.

'Not sure if it totally meets your desires but SGX's <Layers> drop-down listed options allows "hiding" objects while in a work session (but they're not hidden when compiled to FS).

Making a seperate bgl for comparisons can be done now by opening a duplicate project in a second "page" in SGX and "mixing" it's results with your 'prime' project. The 2nd page activity must of course bear a different project name and send it's bgl to the same active scenery folder you're designing-to.

I don't think you can mix AFCAD facilities with SGX facilities though; only objects that are not nested within the 'facilities' realm.

J.R.

[thiscox]

I'm jumping in a little late and will read thru the long replies, but a couple of quick notes:
1. The 'File Not Found' error you're getting on the Import BGL is most likely due to a bad path error to the BGLXML.EXE disassember program. Check your Options/Directories. But all this option does is start the disassembler.

2. I'll check the parking spot rotation-I did not catch that in my testing. Orientations have been a problem in working with FS scenery, especially on the taxiway signs.

3. SGX allows multiple sceneries to be loaded at the same time. So you can load your scenery, and then open another scenery window and add the imported stuff to compare. If you don't save it, it won't be there the next time.

Tom

[tgibson]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the very helpful replies. I'll check my Directory entries, but I do get the file disassembled - I just get the error too! (and SGX shuts down).

Thanks too for the hint about loading multiple files - this should make adding building and library objects to my AFCAD airports easy!!

Take care,