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View Full Version : My Pic of the day... (Lonewulph question too...)



jwckmiller
07-15-2002, 06:46 PM
Raytheon Hawker 800XP

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d334fa0516c974c.jpg

Got to the airport a little earlier to get better light. Was the only plane worth shooting. Went back after lunch, was walking around, shooting nothing in particular, and was asked to leave again at the same FBO that "booted" me before!! This is getting annoying. Maybe next time I will bring my video camera and tape him asking me to leave. Then I can send it to the local TV guys for their opinion...

Hey Bob, if you see this, can you comment (off the record) if it is against some law or something to take pictures at a public airport? I tried to call the Director of Operations, but she is out until tomorrow. Just would like some background on this. Thanks in advance.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

n111sp
07-15-2002, 07:15 PM
its easily understandable why they would ask you to leave..working at KGSO, and KBUY...i know how people are...ask yourself 3 questions
1.do you go into the fbo and say hey im jeff...im going out on the tarmac and take some pics...
2.do you touch the aircraft (or go inside)
3.do you step off the tarmac when aircraft arrive?..

they do have the right to ask you to leave...the tarmac is restricted to pilots, crew, and passengers...but good luck

-james

lonewulph
07-15-2002, 07:41 PM
Jeff,
Our "Chase 1" hanger is at the Orlando Executive airport here. I wonder around all the time drooling on cockpit windows, I climb in and out of alot of GA aircraft, I take pictures of various aircraft that are in town as you, like the Blue Angels F-18, various warbirds. I got a great one sitting in a Hind-D.

Anyway, since I fly out of the Chase hanger, everybody knows me there, and I'm usually in uniform, and I did most of all the picture taking well before 9-11. (Which changed everything).

FBO's will have flexible rules and they do have the ability to change them at anytime. By law, you are free to photograph and stand anywhere you want in any area of public access, and if anything is in plain view and there is no expectation of privacy.
Standing near the FBO should not be a problem, providing you're not on the ramp, etc. But it's still their call if they want to be a ____ about it.
Most airports, such as like yours sounds, are fenced off, controlled environments with limited accessibility even to those who are flying in or out.

In a nut shell, if they see you're not walking like you're on a mission...they'll most likely oust ya.

I was told to take a hike when I was standing 5 feet from a Blue Angel....I was in uniform and had just sat down after a flight!
:)

Take cookies to the guy next time, work it...he'll take care of you if he wants! :7

Best,
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d2b5be26019c2dd.jpg

IR655
07-15-2002, 07:49 PM
Jeff, these fellows above me have said it all, I have the same problem at KPIE, I was taking pics of some Jets and Signature Flight Support asked me to NOT take any pictures of those planes, they told me that I can only take pics of my own plane...which would be my academy's fleet.

As Bob said, if you stay in public property or area they can't say much......I think?

Regards,
Arman
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cd2ecea0d6e37a1.jpg

RobJ
07-15-2002, 07:58 PM
Sweet pic Jeff! Yep - cookies always do the trick :D.

Robert Jubb,
Flight Sim Hardware Guru.
http://www.rjubb.co.uk/images/sig.jpg

lonewulph
07-15-2002, 08:04 PM
ps,
Would'nt it be just heaven to have a model of this one for FS.
Oh baby, come to daddy!
That's the X, right?

Best,
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d2b5be26019c2dd.jpg

pacallen
07-15-2002, 09:01 PM
Nice pic. I too have been kicked off an airport for taking pictures. This was at KMCI (Kansas City International) when I was taking pictures of buildings for a scenery I was making (given up now :() and of course a few departing jets. At first I had one cop come up to me then about 20 more bored airport police guys showed up and ran my DL.

I guess that was a little different from your's and everyone else's experiences because I was at a major airport, even thought I was only walking along a public road (on the grass next to the road actually). Today I was at KOJC taking pictures after a second intro flight in a Piper Warrior II (I'll post some pics after I finish this post) and I could have walked onto a main parking apron to take some close ups but I didn't want to get kicked out on my third visit to that airport (and by the FBO that I hope to take my lessons with).

9/11 screwed everything up...

http://www.kcsportscalendar.net/signature1.jpg

FlyerJeff
07-15-2002, 09:37 PM
Some airports still feature tours, like for instance Tucson INTL. I plan on taking the Ramp tour, which includes the historical west ramp :P. Some other airports might feature tours too!

-
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c8968c035214917.jpg
Keep on Flyin'!
AMD Thunderbird 1.4 ghz
NVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 32 MB
Sound Blaster PCI 128
512 MB RAM
And
Good frame rates!

desibaba15
07-15-2002, 10:12 PM
Nice shot Jeff.

It's sad that you can't take this beautiful pictures anymore. 9/11 changed airports! :-(

Ankit

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 12:25 AM
Hey James,
Thanks for the response. I appreciate it. Here are the answers to the questions.

1. No, I don't introduce myself as I don't even go on the tarmac. I stay outside the fence.

2. Touch the aircraft? No way. Most of the time I am 50 yards or more away.

3. Step off when planes arrive? See 1 + 2.

KAPA is a public airport with no scheduled flights. General aviation and charters only. All flight line areas are fenced/gated, and well marked. I don't think they DO have the right to tell me to leave any common public area just because I can see onto the ramp.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 12:33 AM
Bob,

I don't have the access you do. As I mentioned to James, I park in the lot and walk up to the fence around the perimeter of the flight line. There are no posted warnings or anything of the sort regarding looking at or photographing the aircraft. I never photograph people either.

Once approached, and asked to leave, I do, as I think if I refuse, security will be dispatched. They can always say I was acting suspiciously, which would probably result in a ride to the near by police station. I don't want that hassle.

I am goin to speak with the Director of Operations tomorrow. I want to know the real "skinny" on this one. Something is just not right.

Thanks for the insight, and I'd like to see the Hind-D pic.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 12:37 AM
Doesn't that bother you Peter? Maybe they need to set up a place where you can "check-in" or something, so they can keep tabs on who is around. I would not mind that.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 12:48 AM
I would buy it! That's not the Citation X, but a Raytheon Hawker 800XP!

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

Avstar113
07-16-2002, 01:43 AM
That sux.. You take good pics, Jeff. Hopefully you can work something out with the person in charge there.

Hey Arman, those guys at the Signature Air Support where you live are jerks! :-lol I flew to the one at KSNA (pre 9/11) and they let me all up in that place- at night too! Didn't have my cam though.


http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d236d036dc16cab.jpg

steve7fm
07-16-2002, 02:45 AM
Just a thought Jeff.. Can you not show this guy some kind of Military ID or whatever that you clearly had back when.. Or is that in itself not allowed.

http://www.smafie.co.uk/bonsig.jpg

alastairmonk
07-16-2002, 09:06 AM
As Bob says, even a uniform doesn't guarantee access.

A couple of years ago, some of my collegues from St. John Ambulance were taking part in the annual Heathrow Disaster exercise, providing logistical support as they would in a real incident. Usually the St. John uniform is well known amongst other professionals and emergency services personnel, and is almost as good as a pass, however in this case they had to pass through numerous checkpoints, which proved a major pain, as they were moving all around the Terminals for access as they ferried equipment to set up the Survivor Receiving Centre.

Not that anyone really minded, as we've been well used to security checks for 25 years. However, it does indicate that security matters are frequently taken very seriously by those responsible.

And, as has been said elsewhere, after 9/11 everything changed.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3bae67d85138992a.jpg

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 09:34 AM
Steve,

Sure I could show him my Military ID, but I don't think it means a row of beans to them. What gets me is this guy isn't even a security guard. All I ever see him do is drive baggage out to the planes!
v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

Erick_Cantu
07-16-2002, 09:43 AM
*sigh* Hawker 800XP and Cessna Ciation X. Those are two bizjets I'd really love to do, but no time. And of course they would be free...

You know, the 800XP has a really cool lift dump system. When you're on the ground and you hit the spoilers, the spoilers go up, and the flaps go down to almost 90 degrees deflection! I hear it's really efficient and really stops you. I have an old Flying magazine with an article on the XP somewhere, but one of my sibs seems to have lost it. Unique yoke too - ramshorn like Concorde or the ERJ.

-E

[font size=1]
FLIGHTFX POLICY
1.) We design for reality, not for idealism.
Thus, you will not see virtual cabins on our aircraft. You can not see inside the real thing anyway, unless you are looking into the sun. You will find virtual cockpits but they will not be visible from outside for the same reason.
2.) We design for people with real computers. Thusly, we will not waste polygons on superfluous parts. We will use a texture when there is no noticeable difference between it and a group of performance wasting parts. We will model our aircraft efficiently. If you do not like it, too bad.
3.) We will give you the latest features, but we WILL NOT sacrifice visual accuracy to implement them. Accuracy comes before eye candy.[/font size]


http://flightsimmers.net/airport/nwva0670/SONICFFX.gif

Erick_Cantu
07-16-2002, 09:51 AM
Yeah, I hear there is a concrete roadblock blocking access to my favourite LAX spot. I say screw the security - in the words of Bush, 'send a message to the terrorists', except I've got a better one - "you made your point, we still don't care and nothing's going to change it, you namby-pamby little pinko poofs!"

-E

[font size=1]
FLIGHTFX POLICY
1.) We design for reality, not for idealism.
Thus, you will not see virtual cabins on our aircraft. You can not see inside the real thing anyway, unless you are looking into the sun. You will find virtual cockpits but they will not be visible from outside for the same reason.
2.) We design for people with real computers. Thusly, we will not waste polygons on superfluous parts. We will use a texture when there is no noticeable difference between it and a group of performance wasting parts. We will model our aircraft efficiently. If you do not like it, too bad.
3.) We will give you the latest features, but we WILL NOT sacrifice visual accuracy to implement them. Accuracy comes before eye candy.[/font size]


http://flightsimmers.net/airport/nwva0670/SONICFFX.gif

Erick_Cantu
07-16-2002, 09:53 AM
Heh - I get visions of that guy with the changing voice from the simpsons...

"AaH! PrInCiPaL SkInNNer!"

"KeeP WAthChiNG The SKeeS...I MeAN SKieS!"

-E

[font size=1]
FLIGHTFX POLICY
1.) We design for reality, not for idealism.
Thus, you will not see virtual cabins on our aircraft. You can not see inside the real thing anyway, unless you are looking into the sun. You will find virtual cockpits but they will not be visible from outside for the same reason.
2.) We design for people with real computers. Thusly, we will not waste polygons on superfluous parts. We will use a texture when there is no noticeable difference between it and a group of performance wasting parts. We will model our aircraft efficiently. If you do not like it, too bad.
3.) We will give you the latest features, but we WILL NOT sacrifice visual accuracy to implement them. Accuracy comes before eye candy.[/font size]


http://flightsimmers.net/airport/nwva0670/SONICFFX.gif

steve7fm
07-16-2002, 10:32 AM
>Steve,
>
>Sure I could show him my
>Military ID, but I don't
>think it means a row
>of beans to them.
>What gets me is this
>guy isn't even a security
>guard. All I ever
>see him do is drive
>baggage out to the planes!

Ah, sounds like a right Jobsworth then. :-(
I think if i were in your place i'd flash it anyway just make him look small..

http://www.smafie.co.uk/bonsig.jpg

Jepp2Jet
07-16-2002, 02:49 PM
its not the airplanes their worried about, its the *top secret* facility with the satelite dish in the background...

was it some loser from denver jet? what a knob.. tell 'em to get a life and go have lunch @ Perfect Landing.. betcha could get some good pics of the ramp rat sweating his a$$ off in the 90+ weather while you sip a cold one... lol

MnM
07-16-2002, 03:04 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-02 AT 03:21PM (EDT)[p]Ok .. here's what i know, and what ive experinced..

At a public airport, my local, (HUY/EGNJ Humberside International) you ARE permitted to take photographs of any commercial aircraft, private aircraft within the facility. I dont know many people at EGNJ, but i have a friend who is situated in the tower, this enables me to get acess to the tower when Kevin is on "duty" so to speak.. and take photograhps. Iv'e spoken to Kavin this evening and have asked him about this, he's told me what i said above, you ARE permitted to take photographs of any Civil airports building/aircraft/personal.

Military is a little different, unless at a Airshow, At airshows you are permitted to take photo's external of the aircraft, UNLESS, the pilot or man of authority for the aircraft says otherwise, for cockpit photo's or internal shots. On RAF Bases, and USAF Bases here in the Uk, photographing of aircraft whilst on these stations is phobited, unless the station commander or someone with relevant authority permits it and the aircraft/building/whatever has no tags on it, such as top secret e.t.c.

Anoter form of Aircraft photography, is when on RAF Stations, on Cadet Camps, or such.. these photographs are taken by Authorited RAF Personal, and are freely distributed to All personal attending camps, for example, RAF Odhiam, Summer 1999... We all got a 6 Hour flight on a Chinook doing Auto Rotations, Curcuits, Field Landings, Water Landings, and even a Sea landing on HMS Jury (I think that was the name)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ski_/FS/odhiam.JPG

But saying all this, im in the Uk, Your in the USA, i found info about this initaially by writing to the CAA, maybe if you are really serious about it, comtact the FAA, im sure they will guide you in some direction, hopefully oncourse for more spectacular photographs from yourself.

Hope this helps in some form or way.

Best,
---
[b]M n M :-jumpy
"Going Higher, Faster, And Futher"
MSN - Volvo_4_@hotmail.com
E.M@il - Volvo@Microsoft.com
---
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ski_/mnm.gif
---

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 05:05 PM
Jepp2Jet,

No, he was from TacAir. And yes it is Da$n hot isn't it? There is going to be one of those big business jet shows Aug 1, think 'ya gotta have an invitation though..

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 05:07 PM
M n M,

That is exactly what I thought, and the way it should be. Thanks for all the work. and great group shot 'ya got there.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

MnM
07-16-2002, 05:32 PM
Jeff - Wasnt much of a workload, anything for you guys on here..

Hope you have a great evening, and it is a good photo isnt it :-)

---
M n M :-jumpy
"Going Higher, Faster, And Futher"
MSN - Volvo_4_@hotmail.com
E.M@il - Volvo@Microsoft.com
---
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ski_/mnm.gif
---

Jepp2Jet
07-16-2002, 05:32 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-02 AT 05:36PM (EDT)[p]CHECK DENSITY ALTITIUDE!.....

Most of those guys are alright, but there are a few are wiennies.
I think they harassed you because of this..

[http://www.tacair.com/SecurityLetter.pdf]

Whats the info on the biz jet show? I havent heard anything..

BTW did you catch this a couple moths ago.. that was impressive.

[http://www.centennial-airport.com/Events/Articles/B-1.html]

p.s. this had more then half our bldgs employees standing in the back parking lot.. it was setting off car alarms & rattling windows everywhere..

SRQpilot737
07-16-2002, 06:21 PM
Well u guys need to starting lessons at these airports. I take lessons at KSRQ (Sarasota/Bradenton INTL) and I cna get right next to the taxie way if i want to. I have gotton on it before. Behind a CRJ about 1,000ft back, I'll never do thayt agine almost got blown away.

Ryan
SRQpilot737@aol.com

jwckmiller
07-16-2002, 06:30 PM
No!!! I did not see the B-1, but a good friend of mine told me about it. (I thought he was nuts, so I humored him...) He loves aviation too, he just doesn't know a whole lot. I guess I owe him an apology.

I read about the BizJet show in the local airport "rag". I will see if I can find out more. It is a 9-5 event with breakfast, lunch etc.

v/r
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d0e3d671bf92612.jpg

Jepp2Jet
07-16-2002, 06:32 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-02 AT 06:38PM (EDT)[p]>Well u guys need to starting
>lessons at these airports. I
>take lessons at KSRQ (Sarasota/Bradenton
>INTL) and I cna get
>right next to the taxie
>way if i want to.
>I have gotton on it
>before. Behind a CRJ about
>1,000ft back, I'll never do
>thayt agine almost got blown
>away.


Lessons? Am I still that bad a pilot? I guess that last ILS 35R @ Centennnial was about 1/2 dot right... lol

Jepp2Jet
07-16-2002, 06:47 PM
Funny to watch men acting like kids (myself included) as they did the low approaches.

The last pass, as stated on the page must have been quite a ride.. about mid-field they poured on the coals..
screw the noise restrictions.. were on government business and were outta here,
departing the pattern to the north, climb to 13, good day...