Op-Ed: Are FS Developers Playing Fair?

[N400QW]

Read the article with interest in order to better understand the concerns of the author and the "community. Kevin seems to have brought up an intersting point or two as well.:-)

To the Freeware Developers and the Beginner Developers, the first thing you will need to develop before throwing your "hat in the ring" is a relatively thick skin.

The "community" can be extremely rude, inconsiderate, and downright obnoxious in its commentary about your beloved project. Many top Freeware Developers have withdrawn from development for this very reason and novice or startup commercial endevours have experienced much the same treatment.

The second thing you will need to develop is a sense of persistance to see your beloved project through to release even if it takes 12 to 18 months.

Thirdly, you will have to ignore the naysayers, be they "big fish" or "small fish":-)

Edit: To clarify, Eaglesoft Development Group will continue to build for FS9 for the next 18 to 24 months along with the additional task of building for FSX :-)

Best Regards,
Ron Hamilton
http://www.eaglesoftdg.com
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/Attachments/up1/99718.gif

[Qballbandit]

"In one such case an add-on for FS9 was heavily rumoured in a developer's forum, which were not denied by said developer. They even answered questions about the "product". Eventually, under heavy customer pressure, it turned out the developers had not even started work on it, and that when they did it would be for FSX only!"

Amen to that Kevin.

Neil :7

AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gt 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

[Dusty]

You can add me to the "most frustrated" list when it comes to early announcements that run over the six month time frame and/or never seem to materialize.

As for bullying the market? That's competition. If a developer backs out because said company announces a product they are developing does noone any favors. Sure their product may not match up, but then they could be providing their product at a lower price point. The point is, don't let the big guys intimidate you. You just might find out that your $5 to $10 entry ends up outselling the $50 FMC.

With the recent release of FSX, I see a tough time for payware this year. Some folks are not going to FSX yet while others have already thrown the FS9 CD away. So, I don't think X-payware is going to bring in the real revenues for a while. You can already see payware sites offering preorders for products that have been "in development" for longer than we care. I think they know it as well.

My two cents.

~Dusty

[flightman]

>
>Edit: To clarify, Eaglesoft Development Group will continue to
>build for FS9 for the next 18 to 24 months along with the
>additional task of building for FSX :-)
>
>Best Regards,
>Ron Hamilton
>http://www.eaglesoftdg.com
>http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/Attachments/up1/99718.gif

Hi Ron,

That's excellent news. Sounds like a good approach, maybe others could follow your lead, instead of rushing to ditch FS9 before fully understanding FSX.

To be honest I was only thinking about the mainstream airliner add-on producers in my post. Niche developers like Eaglesoft, RealAir, etc. clearly don't play the same ugly game.

Kevin

[N400QW]

Of course we can't speak for others but we happen to like FS9 a lot and will continue building for both FS9 and FSX for that reason. We only discontinued support for FS2002 in January 2006 :-)

The "heavy iron" guys seem to play a bit of hardball at times but considering their investment in time, resources, and manpower, we are not surprised :-)

Best Regards,
Ron Hamilton
http://www.eaglesoftdg.com
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/Attachments/up1/99718.gif

[mgh]

Which developer was that?

[Captain America]

That Op-Ed piece is right on the money.

I'm frustrated with a couple payware developers that have
been promising new products for a long time.

I have a feeling that some payware developers may have met their
match with FSX and are struggling to produce a useable product.
I hope they hang in there and don't give up on FSX.

I sure would like to have that new MD-11 and that FA-18E.

I have FS2004 and FSX both, but I haven't opened FSX in almost a month. I've been buying steeply discounted FS2004 products that developers are selling. FS2004 is still alive and doing very well.

[fsfilmworks]

I'm not sure who the developers being mentioned are, I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the addon aircraft market, as I find the cycle of compatibility for aircraft are a poor investment for FS as they will always be rendered obsolete the moment the next version of FS is released.

The thing that bugs me with a new release of FS is when developers say a product is for "FSX" when it's really a 'patched' FS2004 version with none of the new FSX features included... That's what really makes me mad... Don't advertise something for FSX if it is only a patch and not a fully compatible and rendered FSX product...

Now as for the newcomer and upcoming developers... If they can't stand the heat and they've jumped out of the fire, I'm gonna be blunt... That's their problem... If they don't have enough passion to see their project through to completion and see the competition as competition, this is afterall a free market society we live in today (with the exception of a few countries), then they really should probably pull out of the market... I tip my hat to the guys who take the challenge of competing with the big guys and persevere to find their niche in the community...

It's like the other industry I'm involved in, film and television production. A new film maker isn't going to get the funding and rescources to make a Hollywood budget feature film. Do those up and coming film makers quit and not make any movies at all? Heck no!!! They start with the budget they have and they do the best job they can do with the time, rescources and talent they have at their disposal...

I'm sorry but I have do disagree with the OpEd post. We cannot blame developers for little guys backing out of the market... I've been with FS since version 2 (and even had experience with version 1), and I've seen many developers and freeware designers come and go...

Through it all I have personally started with 'garage band' level projects... Over the years my experience has grown and grown and grown... So has the quality of the things I've been working on... Experience comes from, you guessed it, experience, and experience is what makes you grow into a major player... That is how Steven Spielberg started as did a lot of other people in the film business or any business for that matter.

It's a matter of establishing a foothold in the market by having a good product that people want, gaining a reputation for excellence and getting better at your art...

I live by the addage that a film director friend of mine once told me:

"If you never quit, you never fail. The day you quit is the day you fail."

In my opinion if someone has quit developing for FS it's because they're a quitter and to be honest that makes me lose respect for them and I have no pity for them for having quit. It was their decision and one that they didn't have to do, but they chose to quit...

Now at the other end of the spectrum is the developers who claim to be developing something but haven't and don't even post screenshots of progress. That is clearly false advertising and for sure those people should be taken to task over those claims...

But to connect the two separate issues together I don't feel is a correct fit for the situation... What a freeware/new payware developer does is their choice (and if they've been around FS long enough they'll know to keep developing their project even if it doesn't hold a lick to the big boys right now, there's every chance that payware developer will disappear from the market tomorrow, do I have to mention names of companies by name that have gone under leaving a void in the FS community)? What a payware developer does in false advertising is mostly a separate issue...

For an upcoming developer I would say this... Never Quit!!! We need you in the FS community, your work won't be in vain... Many many many FS developers freeware and payware come and go... Aim to make your product better than theirs or at least have a starting point and a plan on how to make your addon better than the next guy's... Build your reputation, and don't be a quitter... Perseverance is what will see you through to success...

I have been with FS for over 20 years now... My first projects for the Piper Tomahawk have long since disappeared from the FS community (mostly-except for a couple of pirate fs websites that are hosting the files illegally), but I started small and now I'm working on a major FS project that will be bigger and better than one of the biggest FS Addon players in the market... How can I do that? Simply because I know I have a better product, which has had more passion and heart put into it by me than the other guy who is only in it for a quick buck... No one will want to buy the other guy's addon anymore because as much as they've had a corner on the marketplace for years, those days will soon be coming to an end as their product is definitely going to be trumped... Now they'll either need to start competing with the bar having been raised or they will need to re-assess the profitability of their future productline. I'm not aiming to hit or target areas they already have a corner on as some other FS developers have done, but what I can say is they released an addon that I had already been working towards developing long before they did... I never quit though and now the development process is reaching a level of maturity where even their products (of which I've been a major supporter in the past) seem so old and cliche'd that I can't even stand to use their stuff anymore, well at least unless it's the best possible addon out there and can't be bettered anyway due to technological/data constraints... I still fully support their business and I hope they welcome the healthy competition... Who knows maybe one day we could end up joining forces...

Anyway that's just my own thoughts on the topic... I don't agree with a level playing field analogy though, that is a myth in my opinion and something that has never existed outside of theory in the real world, and is something that will never exist... The communists tried it and proved it doesn't work. Competition is what drives innovation, and at the end of a race there can be many champions but only one winner... The question is do developers (either freeware or payware) have the heart of a champion and a winner... Athletes train for years to get the gold, they don't always win the race, but over time they train and develop the muscle to be able to one day win that race and that is what makes them a champion even if they don't win the race... Those who do persist though are the ones who eventually at some point see the gold though...

*steps off soapbox*

[xxmikexx]

Well said, FSfilmworks.

Watch the Op-Ed fireworks tomorrow. I will be taking the place on the soapbox that you vacated.

[mgh]

"In one such case an add-on for FS9 was heavily rumoured in a developer's forum, which were not denied by said developer. They even answered questions about the "product". Eventually, under heavy customer pressure, it turned out the developers had not even started work on it, and that when they did it would be for FSX only!"

I repeat my question that I posted by mistake in reply to another poster. Which developer was that?

[beana5]

I see the Games are over,a rare Gladiatorial contest.Both men savage themselves,but no final winner.No crown of Laurel leaves.Plenty of blood to satisfy the mob.How ever,the Emperor this day,stops the bloody spectacle.To much violence even by Roman standard.There will be no falling on one's sword today.This will continue in dark alleys,taverns by the River,and by the most cruel weapon of all,the INTERNET.Each will seek revenge,under the guise of honor,and other macho things.I wonder what will be the next spectacle here.I think however our Praetorian guards will inhibit such displays of excessive violence.
Now back on course,FLYING that is.Things are much clearer at altitude,and ya can't hear the mutterings and the discontent of others.Except of course, we hear our own,.... all the time.
"AVE CAESAR IMPERATOR,MORITURI TE SALUTANT"
VIN ;-)

[xxmikexx]

Okay ... It must be "We who are about to die salute you."

(With a friendly laugh) VIN, do you know something that I don't?

[beana5]

Hi Mike, no, however Ive been consulting the Oracle at Delphi,no definitive answers there.I reveled to her your Celtic origin,AHH,she proclaimed,he is Irish! Now she indicates you have nothing to fear.Hell hath no fury like a sober Irish man or women.Just ask John Wayne or my wife.On the field of battle you will conqueror your enemies,and hang their heads,on a Pilum, up high!The Irish and the English have been doing that for century's.We Romans just sit back,watch,then,divide and conqueror.As for your detractors,I leave you with this,
"HABIT,PERACTUM EST" AVE! VIN S.P.Q.R. (Laughing and cracking up also) :+
PS Keep your sword ever ready my friend.

[daviator]

Don't blame MS or developers, large or small. I really hate to say it but blame the flightsim sites, this one included (sorry Nels) even though it's one of my favorites, for posting these press releases verbatim.

I'd love to see a site that covers the real news and not just repost press releases (often at a fee from what I'm told). I'd like to see objective reviews based on documented criteria. I want to see links to screen shots and not just to the online shopping site.

As the hobby as matured so should the sites covering it. It's time to step up and provide real news with real journalistic ethics.

David Eckert
www.daviator.com

[rabbitcancer]

--------------
For an upcoming developer I would say this... Never Quit!!! We need you in the FS community, your work won't be in vain... Many many many FS developers freeware and payware come and go... Aim to make your product better than theirs or at least have a starting point and a plan on how to make your addon better than the next guy's... Build your reputation, and don't be a quitter... Perseverance is what will see you through to success...
--------------

Bravo, FSFilmworks...I must applaud such a wonderful comment. I hope that we can see more developers like yourself continue to encourage new talent in the market.

Cheers,

Devon.

[xxmikexx]

VIN,

"The Irish and the English have been doing that for centuries ..."

That's my problem. My father was English but his father was Irish, so I don't know who I really am. To further complicate things, my mother was Jewish.

Now ... Thanks to Wikipedia you will never win, but never give up. Hold on ... Actually, you did win -- I'm clueless about S.P.Q.R. No ... Wait a minute ... Wikipedia tells all.

Eschew obfuscation!

[beana5]

Mike ,you sound pure American to me.Chicken soup holds no real identity.We all use the "Jewish Penicillin" now to combat colds and things.Its when you get into spaghetti,then the source becomes much clearer.I love spaghetti.It gives me away every time.Go to Micky Ds and order Spaghetti,and see what happens.
When I was in Rome,I saw SPQR,all over the place.On manhole covers,busses,and on buildings 2000yrs old.Like you I inquired to its meaning.It means ,I was told,"By Order Of The Roman Senate"That other Latin expression does come from the Games in the arena.When a guy went down for the count,they said,"He's had it,its over"or Habit,Peractum Est".Hope this clears up your "Eschew Obfuscation"
I think we got from the main subject,and aviation.That means these Praetorians in charge here will feed us to the CROCS,yes Crocs,ya get tired of seeing only lions chewing on things...us.
Really fun chatting with you,a change of pace,and a change of subject.All will think were nuts anyway, to them I say ....."CIAO!!" VIN ;)

[xxmikexx]

Ciao, Vincenze

Guilty as charged, VIN, I'm a Yank -- and you come across as an Ozzie of Italian descent, have I got it right? (I have dual citizenship with Britain but that has never meant much to me except as something fun to write about.)

Now ... Not only did my Jewish grandmother make wonderful soups and world-class pot roast, she also taught my mother, who in turn taught my Quaker wife, who today makes the world's best lentil soup, a wintertime favorite of mine here on the edge of the foothills west of Denver.

As for the translations, I really did use Wikipedia and I really did get them there. It's a wonderful resource which has given me many hours of pleasure, like flipping through the pages of a really good edition of the Brittanica.

See ya,
Mike

[flightman]

I must say I read Devon Leslie's OpEd with interest as this is a subject that resonates with me. I'm a customer, not a developer, but am becoming increasing frustrated by the "announcements" of the so-called "professional" add-on producers.

Firstly there are the "early announcers", who may or may not come up with the goods, but get everyone interested far too early. Whether or not the product is ever released is not the point. It is extremely frustrating to have expectations raised like this. Also it plays havoc with freeware developers as Devon makes clear.

Then there are the "spoilers" who announce one project then after heavily previewing it convert it to another, similar type to spoil another developers market. Then they release it unfinished in an attempt to get customers locked in. Not naming any names but they are a bunch of "block" heads IMHO.

Finally there are the "delayers" who announce a product "definitely" for FS9, with FSX looming large and unknown in the distance. This paralyses development and they sit like rabbits in the headlights awaiting FSX SDK information to see what to do. Then it is too late: FSX is released and we're now past the time when any serious "pro" add-on developer will release anything on the "old" platform. All the promises of the product being available on FS9 go out of the window and work begins converting said wonderplane onto the new platform, which turns out to be much harder than they thought.

In one such case an add-on for FS9 was heavily rumoured in a developer's forum, which were not denied by said developer. They even answered questions about the "product". Eventually, under heavy customer pressure, it turned out the developers had not even started work on it, and that when they did it would be for FSX only!

One company remains a relative paragon in all this (so far). Products are not announced or previewed until relatively close to release, and you are pleasantly surprised to find that the release date is so soon afterwards. They remain the PICk of the bunch for me :)

Kevin