CFS3 from www.simw.com

[OTTODAD]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-03 AT 03:13PM (EST)[p]After getting CFS3 for my Son while I was with him at Christmas in Utah, I installed it on his new WIN-XP Pro P4-2.8 Gb, 1 Gb RDRAM, RADEON 9700 and was impressed.

So I ordered a copy from the above and was shocked after I installed it, to say the least.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e29b2b870de54df.jpg

This is the Start-Up Screen I get. No choice of Planes in "Quick Combat" like in the USA version. Got to promote myself to "Squadron Leader" before I can chose my own plane ? Ridiculous !

My machine is a WIN-XP Home, AMD XP2400+, 1 Gb DDR RAM and a TI-4600 with the 30.82 driver I am not going to change for the sake of MSTS. It also does very well in FS2002, 25 FpS Min.

Having complained a week ago, no reply from Simware, Belgium, as yet. Any ideas what the problem could be ?

O t t o.

[BillKing20]

Well I was going to suggest highlighting "Aircraft" instead of "Flight Type" thinking your only problem was not knowing the interface, but well... that white texturing indicates you really do have a nasty problem.

Are you familiar with cfs3config.exe which is now installed on your HDD? If not, then you might find the solution in there, it does have dozens of graphics/texture toggles, especially in the "overides" section, and a handy 'default' to get safely back to the original settings which are producing these interesting ghosts :).

MenuUI toggle (not exactly that, but somethingUI) will remove the dynamic menus and might be a workaround. I'm away from my CFS3 computer right now...


http://pweb.jps.net/~wasatch/_uimages/cessna.gif

[OTTODAD]

> Well I was going to suggest highlighting "Aircraft"

Grrrrr ! Made the same mistake with my Son's FSC-3, trying to click on the "Aircraft" box instead of the Header. x(

Selected another Aircraft, still no change.

Tried all possible variations with the cfs3config. It was and and is set to CUSTOM 1024 x 768 x 32 to match my Screen Res. and AA x4.

As I said, no problems whatsoever with MSTS and FS2002.

[jakeludwig]

Is "enable fog table emulation" checked in your card Direct3D settings?

[OTTODAD]

NO FOG SET in the Direct3D settings !

Like I said, MSTS and FS2002 work perfectly.

I like to see where I am driving and flying to ! :-)

[OTTODAD]

SIMWARE, Belgium responded telling me to take the matter up with MICROSOFT's Tech.Support.

This was my Response:

If a product purchased is found to be faulty, you take it back to the Supplier and not the Manufacturer. Is a Ford Car Supplier telling you to take it back to FORD USA or EUROPE for Repairs ?

The Software Industry has to live by the same rules as laid down by Law regarding the Sale of Goods all over the world, purchased ONLINE or not. My resources allow me to make this a Public Issue, I have already raised in the FlightSimNetwork.com Forum.

You should Browse it and see what CRAP CFS3 is reported as being. Distributors really got a nerve selling such Rubbish !

Needless to say that it will be a long time before I buy anything marketed under the Microsoft Label if not reviewed favourably by FlightSim and other User Groups and Independent Reviewers in the Media and in Forums.

Being an Accounting Software Programmer myself, demanding 1000% Accuracy in all I code, the least Manufacturers of less Mission Critical Software could do is to make sure that their Product at least STARTS properly when RUN !!!

Waiting for your response before starting Legal Action against SIMWARE, Belgium and reporting the progress of such action in the Media so that others can learn how to deal with Suppliers of Rogue Software in future.

This is not a financial matter for me but one of PRICIPLES !

[jakeludwig]

I had a friend with the same problem. Checking the box for
"enable fog table emulation" cleared his problem. I unchecked
mine, went to the game and got the same view. Just trying to
help.

[BillKing20]

Ottodad, perhaps fogtable can also be set locally in cfs3config.exe. Then it wouldn't hose your fs2002 & msts settings.

I love CFS3 and luckily it runs swell on my system (it did not at first, stuttered like crazy). I have a half dozen combat flightsims, cfs3 is definately my favorite.

The link below is to a site where 454 users have rated cfs3, and frankly it graded out poorly. That is a pretty large sample size of independent critics; there may be a lower rated major release on that site somewhere, just maybe...

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=96642


http://pweb.jps.net/~wasatch/_uimages/cessna.gif

[OTTODAD]

Bill,

> Ottodad, perhaps fogtable can also be set locally in fs3config.exe.

That is not the Main Problem anyway. I just can not see any Planes, their Colors or Graphics other than what you can see in the Screen Shot.

Did eventually look at the MS-Tech.support site, very little help there other than evidence of a lot of things wrong with trying to run CFS3, not really covering the problems I read about in this Forum, nor mine.

Talked to some MS-Tech.Guys here in the U.K. I have been feeding back some of my MS-FS Fixes for years for problems they could not figure out. Some are still un-resolved like the behaviour of the AUTO PILOT in some planes and constantly Audible Morse Code when tuned into certain frequencies.

Tried a multitude of cfs3config CUSTOM SETTINGS hidden in the "Windows" part but to no avail.

I am using the nVIDIA 30.82 Driver for my TI-4600, which is the best for MSTS. Upgrading to nVIDIA's latest was a disaster ! Had to revert back to the 30.82, as did many others, reading the TrainSim Forum.

There is no way I am changing anything on my machine to make this SECOND RATE CFS3 run on my machine. BINNED IT.

Remember: "If it works, don't change it" !!!

The CFS3 I installed on my Son's WIN-XP Pro in the States runs as it should, P4 2.8, 1Gb RDRAM and a RADEON 9700, if you can stand the background music, but is Graphically nothing to shout about compared with FS2002 Pro ! No match for LAGO's Mesh Scenery.

Will be a long time before I buy anything MICROSOFT again !!!

O t t o

[he129]

What do you mean see the planes? Are you telling me we are supposed to be seeing the planes? I thought all the planes were supposed to be all whited out like the image above! Wow, that will be great when Microsoft releases that patch next month, and I can see what these planes are supposed to look like.
The funny part is I know they tested out this game. Because they have screen shots on thier website. And of course the game developers are going to play with it. So that tells me that they knew that this game didn't work with certain hardware. What is the chance that every pc they played this game on worked perfectly? Hillarious!

[OTTODAD]

Yes, considering a got a Top Notch CLEAN WIN-XP Home re-installed and re-configured, nothing running other than what Sims need, no Internet or Virus Checkers, the latest nVIDIA TI-4600 with the 30.82 driver, the only only to work properly with MSTS and FS2002, I should have thought that Microsoft or their Sub-Contractors creating CFS3 would have tested it with this popular Graphics Card ?

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/WINXP.html

But let's face it, there is NO QUALITY CONTROL at Microsoft and very little in the rest of the Software Industry.

What annoys me most is this glowing 12-pages, incl.pictures, report in the latest Computer Pilot Magazine which made me buy it and Distributors selling it without checking. I shall have words with the guy who wrote it and stop buying the magazine in future. Needless to say that I shall buy no more Software from SIMWARE, BELGIUM, that's for sure, seeing that they are not going to refund it !

[OTTODAD]

Talking to them about their recent CFS3 Review, it appears that detailed references to ALL the problems users have with it were made ! On the article's first page, the small print not easily noticeable on the BLACK Background and probably not read by many others.

PLEASE NOTE that after many years of reading it and it's predecessors I still consider it one of the Top Flightsim Publications !

O t t o

[jackhall]

Otto, I guess you are unhappy. But to say there is no quality control at Microsoft; to blast distributors for selling any product; to threaten legal action over a $50 game; to moan about auto pilot in some planes (not every plane has full featured autopilot; actually the a-p function is reasonably realistic); to complain about constant Morse Code in certain frequencies (not sure what frequency you are dialing up, but that, too, can be realistic); to state that MS didn't test with your video card; and to put down a hard working reviewer's positive findings on this product. ??

The game works quite well on my machine (P4B266-C, i845D chipset, Intel 1.6 P4 Northwood, 512 MB PC2100 266MHz CL2.5 DDR RAM, Ti 4200 video, SB Live! sound, normal drives etc.), and also does so on thousands and thousands of other user's computers. Most new programs (game/sim genre) need a patch of some sort, but to say it's crap isn't really true because of a required patch.

From your screen shot, it's obvious your install along with the current configuration of your computer just isn't working right. But we shouldn't blame everyone else. MS can't begin to test every combination of mobo, CPU, audio card, video card, memory, chipset drivers, BIOS, sound card drivers, video card drivers, programs loaded in the background, etc., etc., etc. Properly tweaked, I would bet a heck of a lot of money that your computer WILL run this program. The trick is to find the gremlin in your particular setup.

I'm not trying to offend you, just recommending a thorough check of your system, and the install of the particular program. I wish I lived closer; I would offer to help. I've pulled my hair out on occasion with program installs on occasion too. Then, when I've found the answer, it's like it was something simple.

Good luck. Keep the faith. I bet it will work.

Jack

[jorike]

I was given CFS3 for Christmas.
I am so sick & tired of spending more time trying to fix Microsofts flight sims than actually flying that I took it back to the shop and laughed.
I have seen nothing yet from Microsoft which betters Janes WWII Fighters.
Old now but fantastic graphics, good fun and reliable!

[OTTODAD]

Thanks Jack for trying to calm me down.

Have you been reading all the posts in this Forum and others, in particular my post in this Thread about what Microsoft was unable to do about it ?

This is what COMPUTER PILOT said in the article starting on page-10. Had I noticed it I would not have purchased CFS3:

"However, the problems that exist within CFS3, seem to be consistently wide-spread across a broad spectrum of computer hardware specifications: from your Pentium III 800, all the way up to your Pentium IV 2.8 Ghz machine."

Consider yourself lucky that your's works !

What infuriates me more than anything else is that SIMWARE, Belgium never offered to take the CFS3 back like your Distributors and Retailers would. It's not the money, it is the principle involved. Would you be happy if your COMPUADD would refuse to refund faulty merchandise ? Would you be happy if your FORD Dealer were to suggest you fix your own car ?

I forgot to mention that I am a 74 years old Accounting Software Programmer and small OEM, supplying my clients with machines according to my specs. For Fun I also create Web sites for my friends. Apart from my WIN-XP SIM machine, I built all my computers since the Celeron and PIII.

You can say I know a little bit about Computing, having started with CPM before the IBM-PC in the 80s ! :-)

Threatening to take Legal Action ? I do not make empty threats as one or two of my suppliers have found out recently, selling me sub-standard merchandise. We have "Trading Standards Laws" here in the U.K. to protect customers from the likes of a certain Major Hard Disks manufacturer who for some time now knowingly supplied faulty Hard Drives to the Channel !

Computer Users ar entitled for Software to work "OUT OF THE BOX" same as my clients are entitled for my Accounting Software to do the job they asked me to program for, or else !

MICROSOFT do not have to worry about their Reputation, being a MONOPOLY, getting richer and richer selling Buggy and Insecure Software, overpriced as well which is subject to Legal Proceedings in your Courts as well as those in the European Community at the moment

Get to know me at: www.otto-wipfel.co.uk

O t t o.

[jackhall]

Otto, I poked about your web site and enjoyed your work very much. Your computer setup is quite nice. I have two rigs, one set with flight controls and the second set up for auto racing. The flight computer is also a work related machine, with MS Word, Excel, Project, PowerPoint and Access used a lot.

Most retailers over here won't take back opened software for a refund. Common practice is to replace with the same software title. That is to prevent piracy, I suspect. The same rule applies to CD music and other "copyable" media.

I've had so many flight and racing sims over the years, and any number of them were REAL crap, deleted from my computer and sitting on my shelf until they were finally tossed. Keep in mind a lot of them loaded and ran, but the graphics were bad, the missions were mindless, you couldn't set controls properly, etc. I just have not had those experiences, for the most part, with MSFS, CFS, Sierra GPL, Papyrus Nascar series. I frequently had to read and re-read the darn manual, and still sometimes missed a major point that wasn't pointed out properly (or more truthfully that I glossed over in my haste to run the program). You know the kind I might be: "Read the manual? I don't need no stinkin' manual!"

As you said, maybe I'm lucky. My install of CFS3 ran quite well right out of the box. I am running Win98 SE. I don't know if that should matter, though. It seems as though you've done everything you can. Hang in there; maybe the patch will help.

Jack

[OTTODAD]

Can't beat good old WIN 98-SE ! :7 Took the guys in the Train-Sim Forum some time to convince me to change to WIN-XP ! :-)

Have not regretted it, using it for Sims only, despite all the problems others have with it, especially Power Users.

My reliable WIN "Work" machine on the worktop is a WIN 98-SE !
Gives me a thought, why not Install CFS3 on that one ! I bet it's got the same problem because it also has a TI-4600 with the 30.82 driver I put into it when it came on the market last year.

It's not what WINDOWS does that matters, if you let it, it's what you do to and with it which does ! Seen my "LEAN & MEAN SIM MACHINE" Desktop and Task Manager in the "WIN XP - Hints & Tips Section of my Web Site ? ;-)

Nice to have met you Jack !

Take care, O t t o.

[flightstrike]

jackhall...U say that most retailer will not refund ur money for opened software.
Have u looked on the side or back of ur CFS3 box? It will have a sticker saying u must accpet the EULA (or what ever) which is enclosed on the CD. If u dont accpet this licence. Take this product back for a FULL refund.
The only way of seeing this licence is by installing the software which means u MUST open the box. If the product doesnt work. BY LAW...the people u brought it from MUST give u ur money back. Its the same with most things. They can say "NO REFUNDS" but by law they must.
The part I like most is that with CFS3 and FS2002. U dont see the licence untill u load the sim up for the first time. Its already installed on ur system. Thats just insane. The worst thing is that u have brought this product. It now BELONGS to u. But Micro$oft want to u accpet their "licence" before they will let u use YOUR product.
If Im wrong with any of this. Please correct me.
Cheers.
Ryan
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d11ec706a0f5188.jpg
ryanmurray@dodo.com.au

[OTTODAD]

Ryan,

> The only way of seeing this licence is by installing the
> software which means u MUST open the box.

Thanks for mentioning this, I thought of afterwards ! It has been annoying me for years when retailers tried to hide behind this clause, they are no longer.

As you said, the Law can not be superseded by such statements here in the U.K. as well and that goes for illegal terms of Guarantees too, like 6 months when the Law says 1 year !

For the record, installing my CFS3 on my older WIN 98SE, also with a TI-4600/30.82 driver, did not work either. It is worse in fact, the CD can not "PLAY" at all, repeatedly looping reading itself and the Hards Drive without starting the CFS3 !

My WIN-XP Home SIM machine runs DX-8.2, no mentioning that CFS3 needs another version and installing CFS3 on the WIN 98SE the "Install" starts off by saying that it needs DX-8.1 and installs DX-8.2 !

No comment, other that saying that MS-UK's Piracy Unit asked me to return the Software for a "Product I.D." check to make sure it is not an "Eastern Counterfeit" !

O t t o

[flightstrike]

So let me get this straight. U brought CFS3 from a company that now looks like they sold u a "weird" version and not the original?
Thats mad. I know here in Australia with have a company called Consumer Affairs, u report the issue to them and they get in contact with the company and sort it out. Im sure u must have something similar over there.
Cheers,
Ryan

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d11ec706a0f5188.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Jack,

I wish we had such an organistion over here in the U.K.! There are "Government Trading Standards" people, following up more serious complaints but shy away from anything Computing, especially Software !

Being a Country with a population of 60+ millions people, many of them Computer users, there is not enough Manpower anybody can afford to deal with the number of Consumer Complaints they are likely having to follow up, thanks to the Software Industry for a start ! ;-)

Some write to the Editors of Computing Magazines who may take up such complaints with the companies concerned, if it is of interest to their readers in general.

But who gets anywhere taking MICROSOFT to task ? One of these days when I get really mad, I SHALL ! x( :7

O t t o.

[vfr150]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-03 AT 10:07PM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-03 AT 10:00 PM (EST)

In response to Ryan's previous post:

'If the product doesnt work. BY LAW...the people u brought it from MUST give u ur money back.'

You're dead right there, Ryan. ANY poduct you buy, be it anything from software to a toaster, MUST be "Fit for the purpose for which it was designed". There is no grey area with that statement, it's simply black and white. That's why the Department of Trading Standards here in the U.K quote it constantly.

Otto.. take CFS3 back to the shop where you purchased it and quote the above. If you don't get any joy, then tell the manager you'll take the matter up with the D.T.S, he'll either change his mind rapidly OR he'll get a roasting from head office.

Craig.
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e3ebbef34302a22.jpg

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I took my copy back to the retailers this weekend (after tearing my hair out with it for 2 weeks) and they gave me a full refund, no quibbles. I bet they've had so many returned, they're getting used to it!!

EDIT 2: Aghhh, Otto, I just noticed where you bought it from... no way would I purchase anything from them after the hassle I had a couple of years back (it's a long story, and I don't fancy getting this thread locked). I honestly don't think you have a chance getting your money back off them, I finally had to report them to my credit card company... they soon changed their minds after that ;-)