NO-CD PATCH IS UNWELCOME! PLEASE DON'T PLACE PIRACY POSTS HERE

[MadMaxMerlin]

Pilots, we do not support software piracy in any form. By using and distributing links to the CFS2 and CFS3 No-CD patch, you are supporting software piracy. FlightSim.Com abhors software piracy or violations of copyright in all forms. Microsoft has created fantastic flight simulation products for us and is selling them at very reasonable prices. If we allow others to pirate Microsoft's intellectual property and actually aid and abet software piracy, how long do you think Microsoft will continue to support the flight sim comminity? Don't shoot yourselves in the foot. PLEASE DO NOT POST MESSAGES ABOUT THE NO-CD PATCH FOR CFS3 HERE! I will delete them and ban the habitual offenders.

[ogre]

I respect your opinion and also abhor software piracy. As stated by several other moderators previously in these forums, freedom of speech does not apply.
However I do resent the implication that just because someone (like me) uses a no cd patch, that they will use it for piracy. I have somewhere around 20 applications and most of them are on no cd patches. Why? Not because I don't own them or because I intend on a more sinister purpose, I use them to avoid wear and tear on my personal property (cds). I owned two copies of Fs2000 because through wear and tear one of the cds became scratched. I had to pay an extra $70 just to use a program I already owned. Since then I have use every no cd patch or crack I can and I have never use a patch in any way that would contribut to software piracy. M$ has not lost any money to me. In fact they are up $70.

This also made me think of Windows Media Player. It is the mother of all no cd patches direct from M$. I can copy all of my music cds to the hard drive. I can then use the music from the cds without actually needing them. Isn't that the same as a no cd patch?

Respectfully,
Andrew Ireland

[MadMaxMerlin]

Andrew, I sympathize with you completely. I'm not a pirate, either. And I find it a complete pain in the butt to have to insert the CD. What's more, sometimes Microsoft's own copy protection doesn't even work propoerly. Happens frequently with CFS2. The issue is fair use as determined by the US Millennium Copyright Act. There was a significant development in this area yesterday when the Federal court determined that cracking DVD protetion code and selling the software so others may violate copy protection was not an infringement. This ruling was handed down in the Adobe eBook case. Howvever, until the courts finally decide the fair use matter, FlightSim.Com must abide by a policy that does not foster violations of copyright. So, any links to downloads of the NO-CD patch for CFS3 or mentions of links to where you can obtain it will be spiked in this forum. Frankly, the sooner the entertainment industry gets it head out of its own butt on the issue of fair use, the better. But, that's my personal opinion and the policy of FlightSim.Com regarding forum posts of hacks that violate copyright or even tread into gray areas, stands.

[Sfanger]

Let's all get off the high podium here!

I've had to reinstall this game so many times to get it to a usuable state that my CDs look like nine miles of bad road. If M$ wouldn't put out such CRAP the CDs might survive a normal use scenario. Furthermore, does M$ give free replacements for "worn out" cds? HA!

Actually, the NO-CD crack has little to do with piracy, and more to do with functional convenience.

IMHO!

[rtriez]

>Howvever, until the
>courts finally decide the fair
>use matter, FlightSim.Com must abide
>by a policy that does
>not foster violations of copyright.
>So, any links to downloads
>of the NO-CD patch for
>CFS3 or mentions of links
>to where you can obtain
>it will be spiked in
>this forum.

Max,

With all due respect, I'd really like to hear this from Nels. I'm the one who posted the link here in the first place and only after e-mailing Nels on this very issue. I'll admit that I did not hear back from him and was not given specific permission from him, but my post had been up for at least a month now and I'm sure that Nels has seen it by now. The site that I linked to was just that - another forum devoted to Flightsim and IMHO, an honest site as well. I refuse to believe that the intentions are of most folks, dishonest who request a no-CD patch; rather as the others have stated, for the purpose of mere convenience and to safeguard their original CD. Is there any difference to 'burning' an extra copy ? It has been discussed at length in the other forums that Microsoft specifically states that it is permissible to do that, so why is one recording medium ( CD ) permissible to copy to, yet another is not ( HDD ) ?

If you are speaking on Nels' behalf, my sincere apologies to both you and to him.

Regards,

Bob

[MadMaxMerlin]

Bob, I'm the moderator here. What I say, goes since I have cleared this with Nels in advance. WE depend on Microsoft for our simulation software and it is just plain stupid to bite the hand that feeds you. Frankly, I missed your original post and I'm playing catch-up. Doesn't mean we are ignoring the situation.

[MadMaxMerlin]

As for the issue of copying CDs, that's between individual software licvensees and Microsoft. We cannot and will not take a position on it. The fair use battle rages on! Just don't post your hacks here. It is not a battle that FlightSim.Com wishes to engage in.

[CoyotePete]

Is it allowed to post links to a site that contains a no-CD patch, either to purposefully link to the no-CD or for other reasons?

[rtriez]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-02 AT 11:43PM (EST)[p]Whoa, put on the brakes a sec Max.....I know who you are and what your responsibilities are.....just I think you are taking this all a little too serious. I'm not critiquing your moderating skills (?) here nor your "authority" as a moderator in this forum. I just don't see how you can speak for Flightsim.com as a collective whole when so many times I see such requests all over this site in all the forums; and civil discussions are held and never once have I seen a post from either Microsoft or from Nels prohibiting such posts or requests. Nor have I received a memo from Nels to the moderators that we are to keep a vigil look out for such posts ( my feelings on all of this would be completely put aside if Nels said " guys, no more 'no-CD' patch posts are allowed " and I would fully comply with Nels' wishes. ) There many reputable sites that offer the no-CD patch and at face value, I can't see how it would be supporting piracy. These are my opinions on it and only that. My intentions were not to challenge you, rather to point out a few things that I felt needed to be pointed out.

Regards,

Bob

[MadMaxMerlin]

No. Please respect our position on this.

[zoynyne]

Sounds like there's a serious "Covering Our Posterior" attitude being adopted on this one...

Completely understandable in this "litigation frenzy" we call a country...

I forsee a day when one can be sued for passing gas outdoors if within 50 feet of a public doorway...

Oh, and don't worry about "no cd" hacks - people, your days with CDs are numbered.

You'll all be paying subscription rates to access everything on big huge servers, oh yeah; it's all going to become worse of a racket than housing, because it will ALL be rentals, no matter how much money you have, and you will pay, pay, and pay more.

They've got it all planned out, it's only waiting for more and better broadband connections, you'll see...

FS 2010 will not be sold, it will be SUBSCRIBED to, payable in monthly, quarterly, and yearly rates.

(Actually, you'll probably STILL need a CD lol, so scratch that one!)

Ya see, the rich already own most everything, their next step is to make sure that doesn't change, and that'll be by NEVER selling anything, just the rights to temporarily USE what they own, and don't even think of trying to buy - WHO'S MONEY MACHINE DO YOU THINK THIS IS JACK?!

You should consider yourselves lucky to even breathe the same air as they do...

[jmiranda]

I feel the same way!!, I shell my $49.99 + Tax at Best Buy and bought this great simulator ..full of bugs software.....!!!! and I want my patch , I want to put my original in a safe place. I have lost many originals.. and programs worth over $200.00 due to scratches.
My nice original cd starts and say... framedyn.dll not found please insert the original disk or try to install the program again!!!, (This is what I am trying to do ...to install it!)after many tries without any change now is working!!

Jose

[TCLeics]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-02 AT 05:44AM (EST)[p]Not really anything else to add to any of that. I appreciate what Madmax is saying, but I personally am very grateful for 'NO CD' patches.

I have a number of games that need the CD in to play, and it cannot do the CD any good to be constantly taken from it's case, heated up in a Cd drive and put back again. Would any of the software companies replace the Cd if it was damaged during the process?

Take FS2002 for instance, although the CD is not required, it only comes in a cardboard sleeve. I have to be extra careful removing and replacing the disks so they don't scratch on the cardboard. If the disk was needed everytime I played it, I don't think they would be in a decent condition any longer.

Tony Clarke

U.K

[rtriez]

>Bob and others, Be careful about
>arguing with the moderators. There`s
>been a seed change with
>this forum and you may
>end up like Simon Evans
>if you keep it up.


Perhaps you should heed your own warning with this very post then ;-)

Of course, I'm kidding but let me tell you something....If I have an opinion and feel strongly about something, I could honestly care less who I'm talking to, I'm going to express it. It doesn't matter if it's George W. Bush himself, if I think someone's wrong, I'm going to let them know. The key to it is how you go about doing it. We moderators make mistakes and we are not up on some podium looking down at the members nor are we any better than anyone else. All we are here, are normal humans, normal members, and normal people to whom Nels has given us a responsibility to watch after his site. If someone disagrees with me in a decision I make, I welcome them to tell me their dissatisfaction. It may/may not change how I feel, but I never hold it against anyone from telling me so. I was very respectful in my response to Max, and likewise, all I ask is if someone has a problem with me or a decision I make, they'll extend the same respect as a fellow member of the human race back to me ( which most do, although I have received some pretty nasty e-mails ).

Bottom line here is this; just because we have the little blue icon next to our name doesn't make us 100 % right....what it does do is gives us responsibility and the powers of discernment to make a judgement call...so if you disagree with a moderator, tell us ! I for one welcome it....and you are not going to get banned by voicing your opinion if you do it in a courteous way.



Regards,

Bob

[Rosgillies]

Thanks for the reply Bob.
I love this forum and would hate to think I could be banned just for offering a contentious opinion. I`m quite happy with your reply and agree with your sentiments 100%.
So nothing more to add than to wish you and everybody on this forum HAPPY CHRISTMAS and a peaceful new year.

[pvalexl]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-02 AT 03:05AM (EST)[p]I Just wanted to add,

If flightsim.com is against the no cd patch, why are they hosting the CFS2 no cd patch in the file library? See it for yourself cfs2.zip .

just something to ponder...

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3dfe8cab5e4b3e9d.jpg

[zoynyne]

Haven't checked that myself, but now THAT is interesting to be sure...

[coolian2]

My CD1 is already scratched, just from installing it and putting it in the drive twice. Just great.

[font color= red]Ian Ritchie[/font color= red]
coolian2@hotmail.com

[MadMaxMerlin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-02 AT 12:19PM (EST)[p]Thanks for the alert about the CFS2 patch. Your sharp-eyes are very much appreciated. I will attend to having it deleted from the library. No contradiction here, just an oversight on my part. Thanks for pointing it out.

[rtriez]

......check yer PM box would ya, gotta tell ya somethin'




Regards,

Bob

[rstansbury]

I simply refuse to put a cd in my computer to play any game or simulation other than to install. I do however OWN every single software title on my machine. I use no-cd patches for all. I either download or create myself (very easy to do) if you are a developer. When I walk up to my computer and click on an icon, I expect that the game will start, I don't bother with inseting a cd and never will. It takes time to find the cd, the game loads slower, and if you forget to insert the cd, it makes you restart the game. Do you own a gun? maybe you shouldn't, it can be used for all the wrong reasons if it gets in the wrong hands. Do you have a "NoCD" patch, it can also be used for all the wrong reasons if in the wrong hands. Bottom line, if I buy the software, I can do whatever I want with it as long as I don't copy it and sell or give it to others. Send the FBI, CIA, computer cop who ever, I can prove ownership of all my software, how I play the game is my business.

[equilibrium]

>I simply refuse to put a cd in my computer to play any game
>or simulation other than to install. I do however OWN every
>single software title on my machine. I use no-cd patches
>for all. I either download or create myself (very easy to
>do) if you are a developer. When I walk up to my computer
>and click on an icon, I expect that the game will start, I
>don't bother with inseting a cd and never will. It takes
>time to find the cd, the game loads slower, and if you
>forget to insert the cd, it makes you restart the game. Do
>you own a gun? maybe you shouldn't, it can be used for all
>the wrong reasons if it gets in the wrong hands. Do you
>have a "NoCD" patch, it can also be used for all the wrong
>reasons if in the wrong hands. Bottom line, if I buy the
>software, I can do whatever I want with it as long as I
>don't copy it and sell or give it to others. Send the FBI,
>CIA, computer cop who ever, I can prove ownership of all my
>software, how I play the game is my business.

couldnt have put it in better words myself

[keenrw2]

Hi

NOCD patchies are not illegel to use if you own the game to use it with , theres nothing wrond with that .
I have quite a few games and most i use a NO-CD patch with , the reason is as some one else pointed out, that i can pretect my original CD and keep it free from scratchies .
Its people that buy the game and take it back when thay get a Nocd patch
, now that is illegal and people like that are are to blame for the high prices of software etc and should be cought and prosicuted .

Rich
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/KEENRW091970/Lanc.jpg

[rstansbury]

Your theory is and will be the death of the computer as a gaming machine if true. I will never subscribe to any such thing. There are much better ways to solve this problem. Microsoft has just scratched the surface with "Activation" of XP and their office suite. Norton is doing it with their products also. They can and are being hacked, but as this idea evolves it will be pretty good. FlightOne has a good thing going, they include a wrapper with their software that validates your purchase everytime you install it. It goes as far as entering the last for numbers of your credit card during installation. They are on to something that will work for the masses if perfected. To get back to your theory...The day I can't play my games on my computer at the cabin is the day computer gaming ends for me -NO PHONE, NO CABLE ETC. (I do bring my cell phone), but for emergency use only. My cabin is used to get away from it all! I do understand what you are saying, I've heard about the "Online" software thing, I just do not see it happening for a very long-long time.

[Jimjam]

> Its people that buy the game and take it back when thay
>get a Nocd patch
>, now that is illegal and people like that are are to blame
>for the high prices of software etc and should be cought and
>prosicuted .


most places i buy games from once you break the seal on the box it dont go back unless it is faulty... and some places they acutlally check it and it dont go back at all....

i do agree with what the majority of people are saying in that nocd's are a good thing and i guess once again it comes down to the few wrecking it for the many... whatever happens will happen we are all just pawns in the big battle of life

J

[BeefHooked]

An interesting thread, certainly a topic that just won't go away....


I'm curious, many people here will know of Simviation, I'm sure you'd all agree, its a well run site that has considerable respect in the FS community.

Indeed, I know many users here are also users there.....

Why is it then that the CFS3 "No CD" patch is available there, but solely on the advice thats its due to fixing performance issues within CFS3 - Hell, I tried it, CFS3 - for me - runs far better although not great, with the patch/crack/whatever you wish to call it applied.

I doubt anybody would accuse Pete @ SimV (Webmaster) of being a supporter of piracy (he sure as hell isn't!) yet he has the file uploaded for all to download.

And to think Microsoft arn't aware of this would be unlikely IMHO.

So whats the differance? are SimV immune from Microsoft, or more likely, is it the fact that for some users a cd patch can fix stutter issues?

Or maybey I'm just completely wrong..... Hmm.

Just thought I'd toss that into the boiling pot. ;)