More stutter questions and investigation

[Qballbandit]

Good day all! :)

In my own quest to try and eliminate stuttering, I am always trying new system settings, GPU settings, and BIOS settings.
I am still at this point suffering from stutters which don't ruin the flying experience by any means, but are annoying to me - especially when I "think", I should not have them to the extent that I do.
So here I am, with the below specs I am on the last and latest nForce drivers, latest omega drivers (as of Tuesday), last and latest bios, and overclocked from stock from 200 to 220 on the cpu external clock, from 200 to 220 on the mem at ddr400, 11x mult, 4x htt (which puts it at like 880mhz, is that too slow? 5x puts it at 1100, which I though may be iffy for stability), and using PEG Link "Fast" setting in bios to up the GPU clock, etc. My ram is at 2.75v, and CPU at 1.39 (on auto, but usually reads around there under load).
My system is stable, runs fairly cool, and my frames are not a problem. It is my understanding from years of reading and learning here (and elswhere) that generally CPU = frames, and GPU = speed in texture loading, and crispness of textures, and may add a few frames.
In your opinion, does the X800 meet the demand of my overclocked CPU? I am afraid to oc the card any more, since I have nothing to monitor temp readings on it. I have not tried to juice my memory to 2.8v yet, but have read many people run their CMX512-3200C2 easily at the voltage - some at aggressive timings, many relax their timings to do it. Mine are now at stock 3-3-3-8 2T.
I have tried every .cfg tweak ad-nauseum, and I am VERY happy with
the looks of the sim.
I just want to know how you guys would expirement with my system if you had it in front of you, to chase away stutters.
I love to try new things, so give me all the ideas you care to share.

Thanks for your time, always!

Neil :7



AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[kc10]

>I have not tried to juice my memory to 2.8v yet, but have read many people run their CMX512-3200C2 easily at the voltage - some at aggressive timings, many relax their timings to do it. Mine are now at stock 3-3-3-8 2T.<

I'm a believer in running ram pretty much at default specs, with the exception of tweaking it to get the most out of other components, specifically the cpu, or tweaking for stability (which is basically the opposite of tweaking for performance.)
In other words I don't tweak ram to get better performance out of the ram itself. You'll never see it except for a few extra benchmark points. Now I'm not refering to optimizing, which of course should be done. For example if my ram was ddr2 800 and I'm running at 667, then of course trying lower timings should be done on principle.

About the voltage, higher v is not something to shoot for. Quite the opposite, it's best to get the most out of yor ram at the lowest voltage possible, and only increase the voltage to attain stability as you task the ram to the point it requires more power. Same with vcore (cpu). Higher v is a necessary evil, not a goal.

As for stutters, have you edited the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40 value? It is my understanding that if set too high this can contribute to stutters (in FS9).

[Qballbandit]

Good points KC10, very well written. Makes perfect sense to me.
As far as the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40 question, I have played much with these settings over the years, and read probably every bit of info on them that is out there. I have tried 400, 300, 200, 100, and 80.
Currently set at: TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=100
TextureMaxLoad=8
Also have played with the TextureMaxLoad parameter under it, running from 6, 8, and 10, while adjusting the TBM.
I just can't tell if it's making much difference in stuttering, so it probably isn't, but I can see subtle differences in how things look and load. That second entry, TML is a fairly recent find for me, and there was alot written about it recently. It isn't there by default, it's a hidden parameter. But when you enter it manually, the value ranges, if I remember correctly are like 6 through 10??

Thanks for the input, tanker man. :)

Neil :7

AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[kc10]

I think TML defaults to 3, and I don't know what the max is but I've read you don't want to go above 10.

Here's an interesting read on it's relation to TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT:

By default, the texture manager will upload a maximum number of texture's per frame. This is measured in bytes, and the default is the equivalent of three 256x256 textures with mips.

The 'three' comes from a configuration variable you may not be familar with. This is TextureMaxLoad in the DISPLAY section. The default is three.

This value is multiplied by the TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT configuration variable and divided by the target framerate only in the case where you have a target framerate set. With 'unlimited', the variable will have no effect. So, you can see that the value is a multiplier, rather than having any specific units.

posted by Steve Lacey
http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/2005/11/the_stutters.shtml

[myocardia]

Your stutters are from having too little RAM, period. You'll get a few quick jerks when turning fast, if you have too little VRAM, but too little system RAM is the only thing that can cause stutters. And if you're worried about whether your XMS is stable at the speed you're running it at, just lower it's speed. It won't make any appreciable difference to the speed of your system, and then only when benchmarking things other than games.

[Qballbandit]

Yup, read Steve's article, but can't remember what forum there was a whole big to-do about this. I actually pinned the link in this forum in somebody else's post, and I originally found it from a guy in the FS2004 forum - I'd say beginning of the year sometime? It was a good read too.
Take care KC10,

Neil :7

[Qballbandit]

Hi MYOCARDIA,
Interesting, as I never would figure 1gig would hold up the show. When I start the sim, I also have about 845mb of available ram after a ram defrag too. And I thought lack of system ram would show up more maybe in texture loading and stuff like that?
I have a matched pair of 512 sticks, so in order for me to get 2 gig, CMX1024 is still as expensive as it is.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts,

Neil :7


AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[Adrian Wainer]

Would agree with that, if one runs out of RAM; the operating system starts to use the hard-disc to simulate RAM and the hard-disc with its read write operation is hugely slow compared to solid state RAM chips.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[Qballbandit]

Adrian,
Understood.
I thought I would also mention that I made a few .cfg file adjustments after installing the latest omega drivers. I changed the Texture_Bandwidth_Multi down to 100 from 200, the TextureMaxLoad to 10 from 8, and per KC10's advice in another thread, switched my AF back up to 16x from 8x and I actually have a noticable difference.
Less "open flight" stutters by far, and crisper textures as well.
I had tried these parameters with previous driver sets without the same result. I found a sweet spot now, and i am sticking with it! :P


I appreciate everyone's comments and replies in this thread.

AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[Rcca]

Ever since I bought this new rig have no problems with Stutters any more Neil.I may get a few Micro stutters,but I don't have to spend hours on tweaking my rig like I was with my Old rig.
It was fun doing the tweaking,but took too much of my time,also wife notice the difference on the + side.
Got a new Notebook with Vista,so been reading a lot about Vista,can play Games on it too,looks great.
Darn it!wife did not let me bring the notebook on our cruise to Hawaii,just got Back.
Ron

[Qballbandit]

Hi Ron,
You would have needed a good Cruise Ship simulator for that kind of vacation! :P

Neil :7

AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[nigelgrant]

Neil

Is your video card AGP - if so increase its aperture to 256, when I had an AGP card (X800XL) and did this it made a huge difference to smoothness and blurries.

Nigel
Vancouver

[Qballbandit]

Hi Nigel,
Nah, it's a PCI version. I remember using that trick on my other XP3000+ but can't remember if I noticed anything on the 9800pro, 128mb card.

Thanks!

Neil :7
AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[SP_Frank]

I tried it on my X850XT 256MB AGP. Went from 32MB to 256MB in increments and didn't notice a difference.

Frank

[727stretch]

Neil,

One thought - what are you using for GPU drivers? If you use ATI's, and the Cat Control Center, try setting 'Catalyst AI' to standard/performance. I had always had that seeting on quality until recently. Apparently the Catalyst AI setting optimizes the drivers for either performance or quality. Anyhow, the drop in visuals when switching to standard/performance mode is not much, but the performance gain for me was amazing. No stutters at all, even in frame rate hogging situations... I was even able to up AF to 16x and not get any stutters.

Dave

[Qballbandit]

Dave,
A recent update to Omega 3.8.330 did the trick for me, along with further tweaking in my .cfg file, and a fresh layout of my high performance files to my hdd's outer tracks, and my less frequently used files (archived files) to my inner tracks using Ultimate Defrag.
Since I started this post, my frames and stutters are higher and lower
respectfully. Oh, and I tweak my Omega drivers through ATI Tools, and have Catalyst AI on advanced settings. Some tweaking with this utility may have helped my overall gains as well.
Thanks Dave,

Neil :7

AMD Athlon-64 X2 4200+
Asus A8N5X nforce4 mobo
ATI Radeon X800gto 256mb
1gig Corsair XMS ddr400 PC3200
NZXT 500watt power supply
WINXP Pro SP2, dx9c

Hate to work, love to fly!

[727stretch]

So, you are a loyal Omega user. I'm really stumped over the pros & cons of using ATI drivers & the CCC vs. Omega drivers vs. Tray Tools. I'm wondering if I'd see a performance increase by switching from CCC. Thoughts?

What I'm sick of is every ATI driver revision has its ups & downs. So I end up re-tweaking every single month when the new revisions come out. Some are finicky with AA, others slow down my frames, others seem to be unstable.

[727stretch]

Neil, sorry to hijack your thread here...LOL... I just installed the Omegas & Tray Tools. See my other post in this folder, "Just installed Omega drivers & Tray Tools...". I'm wonderin' if you'd be able to help me with the settings to get me going... Thanks :) -Dave