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sb55mv
08-24-2004, 11:04 AM
Hi All.
I just thought I'd give you some information and a bit of news on what I've done,and the differences it's clearly made to my system,
you can see from my signature that I have IMHO a pretty good and very stable system, however I had read and heard about the amount of people going in for Water Cooling and wondered what all the hype was about, remembering here that our cars,or automobiles for the American fraternity, are of course cooled this way, well, I can report some fantastic findings and temperatures that are absolutely astounding, I am of course in the UK so these will be different from the ''higher climate'' countries, well here in the UK we pretty much get poor weather for a lot of the year,in fact England is the only country I know where we can get all four seasons in one day. we don't get the tropical storms of hurricanes that some of you get, but it does get pretty darn cold all the same, so here's what I did.
I bought a Black Ice Extreme II Radiator as it was the biggest I could find here. then a Swiftech CPU water block and Swiftech GPU block, I never bothered with the chip-set as this never seemed to be very warm to the touch.
I use a Hydor L30 water pump with 1/2" throughout the whole system, the route is as follows,
from the pump discharge outlet(top) along a two foot length of pipe through the wall to the bottom inlet of the rad, then from the top outlet of the rad along another two and a half foot length of pipe into the PC case then up onto the lower in-let port of the water block,then out the top port of the water block to the inlet of the GPU water block, and out the other port, this then went out of the PC case and into a reservoir, from which it came out of there again and into the suction side of the water pump(lower inlet) I describe all this in this way as it's important to make sure you are making the water run ''up hill'' as it were, if you let it run in the downward direction you are not making the water cool, just rush in and out instead. (I did not split the water in-let pipes to make them go seperately to the CPU / GPU as I was running 1/2" throughout and it doesent make the CPU water heat the GPU block at all as the water is not staying in there long enough,and you have to be very carefull not to ''starve'' the CPU block of a good flow rate here)
the radiator on the outside wall just below the window ledge has a pair of 120mm high flow fans on the back of it sucking the air through it, with the water being of a 40% anti freeze and 60% de-ionised water, the fitting of all this is literally child's play with some caution and common sense and taking you're time
I can report however that my system temps when I was on air cooling and the heat sink and fan were typically 58/65 degrees Celsius depending on the weather, well not anymore. now my temps are typical 41 on a very hot day, and today it has remained pretty stable around the 32-36 level,and that was after running medal of Honor allied assault for an hour or so,and then FS9 with a PSS A340,FS Nav,SB Relay,AVC,S Box host,S Box main etc for a flight of 4.5 hrs with real world weather turned on and auto up-dating every fifteen Min's.
I also have been running the Winbond Hardware Doctor Ver 2.73 that came with my IC7-Max3 board, I run a Hercules 3D Prophet 9800Pro with the latest ATI drivers,and DirectX 9.0C.
even now straight after the flight my temps according to Winbond are as follows
System - 28C, CPU - 33C, PWM - 27C,(don't actually know what this is, do you?)
I run all this in a full size server tower as I wanted plenty of room, it has a Vantec 520W Stealth PSU,which has three fans of it's own,then a pair of 120mm fans on the top as exhausts,and a another pair of 120mm fans at the side by the graphics card / mobo mid point.these are all Vantec Stealths again with them being controlled by a rheobus with the top fans being constantly set to low,and the side ones at mid point all the time.
I apologise for the length of this post but just thought I'd do it in case some were thinking of going to water cooling but wondered of it was worth their time and efforts, well it IS.
I know as well that my equipment will last longer as well as a result of it not being run at a very hot temperature, so it has other benefits to it in the long term,and it is also Silent Now Too.
thanks for taking the time to read this.
Steve.

Mr Scenery
08-24-2004, 03:51 PM
So you're not going to overclock your machine? I thought that was pretty much the only reason to go water. Unless you lived in the Congo.

You could probably hit 3.3GHz CPU/220MHz FSB and still not hit the temps you got when aircooled. Though granted this might require you to buy faster RAM.

John T.

flyinggraham
08-24-2004, 04:28 PM
Hi

Wow! I have to look into this!

I get like temps of 60C on my CPU and 50 on my GFX card, so anything to take the noise and heat away sounds good!

Thanks, the post was worth the read!

Graham Harvey
UK

aigean
08-24-2004, 06:40 PM
get out your wallet

Mr Scenery
08-24-2004, 11:56 PM
Correction: My math is wrong, likely maximum stable clock for your setup would be in the area of 3.52GHz CPU/220 MHz system bus.

John T.

sb55mv
08-25-2004, 04:46 AM
John T,
I'm not quite sure what you're implying here, are you saying that I have purposely lied and given the wrong temps about my system etc!, and no, I'm not really into overclocking as I don't see the point from MY point of view,and I repeat that is from MY point of view,not anyone else's,and to be honest I really wouldn't have the required knowledge to be able to do it either,if they or yourself want to do that then fine, it's you're equipment.
I was originally just posting to let people know what a massive difference it's made to my system,thats all it was for and all it's about, nothing else.
Steve.

Mr Scenery
08-25-2004, 10:12 AM
I'm not the knd of person that would call someone a liar without standing right in front of them. I certainly don't think your lying here as what you have posted is very consistant what other people I know have reported. If anything I have said offended you, I apologize, it was far from my intention. I just never hear of people paying all the money for watercooling and not turning up clockspeeds. There's nothing wrong with just wanting really low temps in my opinion, it's just rather uncommon.

Anyway, if you ever wanted to try it, there are plenty of guides posted on the web. A good one is at the guru3d.com forums. If not enjoy your setup, best of luck.

Stay cool,
John T.

sb55mv
08-25-2004, 12:11 PM
Fair enough John, I obviously mis-read you're post's then, sorry.
now then, can you give me some ideas as to what benefits I would actually see/gain from doing this O/Clocking at all please.
thanks
Steve.
PS, I might post a few screen's when I'm finished touching up the paintwork from where I went through the out side wall if you're interested.
Steve.

Mr Scenery
08-25-2004, 03:51 PM
The short answer: Turn your 3.2GHz CPU into one that runs better than P4 Extreme Edition without spending $800 for the new chip. This is done by increasing the frequency of the system bus, upping it from 200MHz to whatever you feel comfortable with or whatever your memory can handle (try checking out some PC4000 DDR SDRAM). The downside is that it creates a considerable amount of extra heat, but with your watercooling, that likely won't be too big of an issue.

There are 100's of site and forums regarding this subject. Do a google search on "overclock" and you'll find all the pros and cons and guides you'll need. The forums at guru3d.com are especially helpful for beginners, or for people who want to tap one of the best knowledge bases on the web regarding the subject. This is one of those things that can be more of an art than a science, so everyone needs assistance at one point or another.

sb55mv
08-26-2004, 04:32 PM
Cheers John, I'll have a look into this and see what happens
Steve.
PS, what will I see in reguards to improvements / performances if I do overclock, I realist this may be a sort of 'how long is a piece of string' question, I was just wondering what people actualy do get out of it
thanks again.

Luke
08-26-2004, 05:28 PM
Yes, the only purpose to Water Cooling is to overclock, or to have a silent system. Your parts will become obsolete DECADES before they would fail from heat. I've had CPUs runnnig at 40+ degrees now for seven years, 24/7 with no problems. It's a PII-300; so obsolete and not worth even replacing when it fails.

I have a 2.6C with 1GB of PC3500 RAM; I have boosted the FSB to 225Mhz without any issues, with only a bump in the CAS latency of the RAM to 2.5. I could probably hit 235Mhz and 3Ghz with CAS3, but the 13% boost in the FSB speed is fine enough for me. Even with stock air cooling, it only hits 56 degrees.

Cheers!

Luke

PS: The Extreme Edition will whip the pants off of any overclocked regular P4. Clock cycles aren't everything, the EE has that massive 2MB L3 cache that the P4's just don't have.

aigean
08-26-2004, 07:05 PM
>>>PS: The Extreme Edition will whip the pants off of any overclocked regular P4. Clock cycles aren't everything, the EE has that massive 2MB L3 cache that the P4's just don't have.

exactly, what makes the EE fast is the cache...

MadMaster
08-27-2004, 12:30 AM
But it can be made up by overclocking a 3.2ghz regular northwood. Really the EE isn't that much faster than the regular northwood P4s. I think it would be worth saving $500 and overclocking instead.

Luke
08-27-2004, 12:38 AM
>But it can be made up by overclocking a 3.2ghz regular
>northwood. Really the EE isn't that much faster than the
>regular northwood P4s. I think it would be worth saving
>$500 and overclocking instead.

On the clock, no. But the massive L3 cache makes a huge difference when fetching from memory and in tight loops.

I'll make you a gentleman's bet that there isn't a single published benchmark that has an overclocked Northwood beating an EE.

Cheers!

Luke

sb55mv
08-27-2004, 06:53 AM
well, some interesting reading here guy's.
thanks for all the information, before I go, do any of you know of any free forums to join to see if I can get some help removing / modifying a reg entry that has been altered by something, but not me.
the problem I'm having is when starting XP Pro, it now takes a little longer than before, and yet everything runs,or seems to run OK, but on the start up screen I get a sound and a message that says ''windows could not find monitor.exe,make sure you typed the name correctly and try again'' I only have the option of clicking on the OK button, then it's business as usual.
I have NIS2004 with NAV2004 built into it, I have followed the instructions at the symantec web site for the my little spy thing,but there doesn't seem to be anything like it in the reg, and my virus definitions are up to date,
I even shut down and re-started in safe mode and ran a full scan, and tried the symantec Live security check, all came back as OK, but obviously it's not.
any help here guy's would be most welcome as I'm starting to pull my hair out
Steve.

troncom
09-16-2004, 07:35 PM
This may sound stupid, but I'll tell yall what I do. And it's cheaper and runs perfectly.

I put a table-top fan on the floor behind my CPU. Cosmetically speaking, no one can see it because it's hidden behind the desk. Since I started doing this several months ago, my system has never locked up when running FS9 or any other application for that matter. Now all I have to do is learn how to overclock my CPU.

Michael

OS: XP Home
Motherboard: ASUS P4B533
Processor: P4 2.4
Memory: 512MB DDR333 PC2700
Video: NVidia GEForce FX 5200
HD: Two drives (60GB & 40GB)
Sound: Creative SB Audigy LS
Monitors: 2 x 17"
Cable modem for real WX
Router for network
Dell Laptop Inspiron 5100 for WX radar, Airport info, etc.

MadMaster
09-16-2004, 11:45 PM
>On the clock, no. But the massive L3 cache makes a huge
>difference when fetching from memory and in tight loops.

30FPS on Q3 going 231.4fps with the 3.4ghz norhtwood to 256.1 with the 3.4EE. Going from 68.6 to 75.6 in commanche 4. Going from 257.7 to 279.9 in UT2003. From 74.3 to 84.5 in splinter cell.

Come on, those are changes you probably won't even notice in a real game. This is where it doesn't even matter that much. Down at like 20-30 fps where it matters there would probably only be a 3-5 fps difference, which is probably just barely noticable. Does that justify $700? Huge difference, I don't think so. Money better spent elsewhere if you ask me. Just too expensive if you ask me.

This is just my opinion...

ballofix
09-17-2004, 06:11 PM
Steve........
Have you, as I understand it, mounted your radiator outside??

I was reading the latest Micro Mart today, and they have a beginers guide to water cooling, and I think I'm like thinking along the same lines here....i.e I'm not into overclocking, but want the coolest temps.

I read the article and thought that its all very well pipeing water through the CPU but if it's going to be REALLY effective the radiator would have to be out side.

Being a plumber, I understand the principles involved here to those that think I'm off my rocker.

MadMaster
09-18-2004, 03:07 PM
That is exactly true. From what I have found from my brothers water cooler is that it is good for taking heat off of the heatsink. If the heat stays in the water then the heatsink wouldn't get any cooler then the water. It is important to get the water cool and you have to use a radiator. When you put the radiator outside you take most of the heat off of the CPU and expels it directly outside of the computer. Also the temperature outside of the computer is almost always cooler than the temperature inside of the computer which would make the radiator more effective.

So water cooling doesn't just lower the temperature of your CPU, but it should also lower your system temperature if you mount the radiator outside.