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bassarch
01-16-2004, 09:44 AM
Is it me or is the bay bridge missing? Its a pretty big bridge, from Annapolis to Kent Island, but I don't see it in FS2004. I see lots of smaller bridges, all the bridges in NY, the Golden Gate in SFO but I can't see the Bay Bridge. I had a few add ons which I removed, uninstalled, FS, did a disk scan and defrag and re installed FS and still no bridge. (when I uninstalled I checked the remove old settings and files options).

Does anyone else have this problem? Any suggestions.

Thanks

Roger

wsieffert
01-16-2004, 10:30 AM
Yes, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge/Tunnel and many other large bridges are missing.

W. Sieffert

Dave_Swiss
01-16-2004, 10:38 AM
http://www.taxiway.de/forum/images/smilies/40.gif

Rememeber, it's a flight simulator, not a bridge simulator.. Such postings really crack me up...

LOL

Greeetz
http://www.taxiway.de/forum/images/smilies/48.gif

teecee
01-16-2004, 10:52 AM
man, some people have a weird sense of humour.It's the guy's fourth post, give him a break.Teecee.

bassarch
01-16-2004, 11:43 AM
The Bay Bridge is clearly there in FS98 and FS2002. Also why would they show the Kent Narrows bridge, but not the Bay Bridge?

KathyPilot
01-16-2004, 12:03 PM
Bridges and other ground reference entities are an important part of "flight". They help a VFR pilot define boundaries of a class airspace, are good checkpoints for dead reckoning, and many times are used as reporting points (i.e. when E on V93 the Bay Bridge is a perfect reporting point for contacting Potomac App at the BAL 20nm). Plain and simple, MS made a mistake these reference (bridges - and the Bay Bridge is just one example) were in the previous version. Some people, including me, that use these references in real life miss them and was a bit surprised and disappointed at their absence.

The only suggestions I have to bring back these references is to look in the files of this site (and others) to correct the problem or make them yourself. I have tried the former with minimal success, and the latter is beyond my technical acumen.

The original poster was asking for confirmation or suggestions - the quoted comment above provided neither.

Kathy

Valcor
01-16-2004, 12:10 PM
Thank you Kathy. That's all.

bassarch
01-16-2004, 02:23 PM
Thank you Kathy. You have pointed out much more clearly and susinctly than I, why this is not a trivial question nor a joke. I am a PP also, and I find FS very useful for planning XC flights to unfamiliar destinations.

Last weekend I went from HEF to GJJ for the proverbial $100 burger and found my way easily because I had flown the same flight on FS a few nights before. Likewise, I was planning a flight to Easton and thence up the Delmarva to ILG, and was going to use "abeam the Bay Bridge" as a VFR checkpoint.

I suppose all the programmers at Microsoft fly with those nice Garmin GPS units all the time, but those of us that rent 20-30 year old 152's and 172's need to look out the windows to navigate.

I will look into any add on scenery and let you know if I find any that includes the bridge.

Roger

FITZY
01-16-2004, 02:25 PM
"Plain and simple, MS made a mistake these reference (bridges - and the Bay Bridge is just one example) were in the previous version. Some people, including me, that use these references in real life miss them and was a bit surprised and disappointed at their absence."

A sentiment and opinion with which I concur, whether or not I use them in real life, I could. These were traded, apparently, for inaccurately placed and depicted autogen bridges and scenery enhancements such as fictitious fast food locations, lamp posts, road signs, etc, which are of questionable value in VFR navigation and pilotage. IMHO.

dandivine
01-16-2004, 02:46 PM
In 2002 I used to like to simulate flying upside down under that bridge.

rpowers46
01-16-2004, 03:31 PM
Check out temp_br3.zip at flight sim

Flic30
01-16-2004, 07:56 PM
Yeah, I was disappointed also when I saw the Bay Bridge was missing. Even more disappointing is Tampa Bay...

I'm surprised with all this "beta testing", this was never fixed...oh well...

KathyPilot
01-16-2004, 09:52 PM
"...those of us that rent 20-30 year old 152's and 172's need to look out the windows to navigate"

Humm....
Renting those low time (cough..cough) aircraft is enjoyable enough, but then you add the high-tech methods of actually looking outside the aircraft to navigate!

Next thing you will be telling us you use Time/Speed/Distance as well.

You're no fun at all Roger....

Not at all.

:-lol :-lol

Clear skies to ya.
Kathy

mal998
01-16-2004, 10:22 PM
Teecee,

I picked up the Lago program, but I'll be darned, I can't figure out how to place the bridges properly.

I'm attempting to place the Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges in N.Y. but can't get them placed in the right direction, size etc.

Also, how the heck do you delete items no longer wanted?

If you would be kind enough to give me a quick walk-through, I would be grateful.

Regards,

Mitch

Garrett67
01-16-2004, 10:26 PM
I understand your complaint, I was disappointed to see (or not see) the Mackinac Bridge. I did download it from the file section but it would be nice to have important structures, such as bridges , to be in place.

bassarch
01-17-2004, 08:31 AM
I'm thinking of buying an "upgrade" Kathy. My plastic whiz wheel is kind of bent, maybe I'll get one of those neat aluminum ones from Sportys.

Roger

ladamson
01-17-2004, 10:47 AM
> These were traded,
>apparently, for inaccurately placed and depicted autogen
>bridges and scenery enhancements such as fictitious fast
>food locations, lamp posts, road signs, etc, which are of
>questionable value in VFR navigation and pilotage. IMHO.

The idea was to get the rivers into river beds, with more accuracy in elevations, instead of draping up & down all over the landscape & then have auto-gen bridges cross highways, etc. In most respects, MS succeeded with the "river" part, but will obviously need "touch up" for bridges in the next version.

Since most of my flying area involves mountainous areas with many small rivers criss-crossing the landscape & elevations, I'm very pleased with the "new" river beds; so in a way, I lucked out, while others lost some bridges.

Ladamson

millj
01-18-2004, 12:59 AM
"Rememeber, it's a flight simulator, not a bridge simulator"

Thanks for the eloquent an accurate reply Kathy. The above quote was totally unnecessary.

millj
01-18-2004, 01:06 AM
Has anyone tried the temp_br3.zip mentioned above?

jmagyar
01-18-2004, 03:09 AM
Can you tell us what bridges it fixes? Is it just for the USA? Or is an international fix? Poor docs...sorry...just hate it when they don't tell us what it changes....just that you need it...

EDIT...Installed it. Went to Annapolis and no Cheasapeake Bay Bridge. And that is what the original post was about. Went to Tampa...no new bridges, went to St Louis, no new bridges, went down through the Florida Keys all the way to Key West....None. So...again, wish I knew what bridges were added, because I have yet to find any...I am off to Michigan to see if any of the Detroit or the one that connects the UP is there.... Oh well...at least I tried your fix.

:-irks

vegad
01-18-2004, 04:09 AM
Wonder if anyone with scenery expertise has tried to import the bridges from FS2002 into FS9. Wonder if that's even possible. dv

mll_kingair
01-18-2004, 06:25 AM
I hate to say but I have not seen a full blown fix and have basically said forget it and hope 2006 is better.

If somthing exsist that dose not require a comp scin degree I would love to hear about it.

mal998
01-18-2004, 07:27 AM
Hi All,

I just picked up LAGO's FSE.

Here are my 1st attempts (somewhat suspect) at placing the Whitestone and Throgsneck in N.Y.

Here's the view east from RW22 @ LGA, towards Long Island Sound.

This program is not for those without patience and some technical understanding.

I'm still trying to figure out how to move, turn, postion objects.

It appears the bridges always point North. But as I said, I'm still trying to sort it out.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400a699b20a1644b.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400a6a692148cc96.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400a6aa721757b7a.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400a6bee227491e3.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400a6c1b22ad7e1d.jpg

Regards,
Mitch
Pembroke Pines,FL

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jmagyar
01-18-2004, 10:27 AM
ON FSE, hold down your CTRL key and then just use your number pad to rotate and move objects, just like you are slewing your airplane. In the PDF help, one of the last pages is a quick reference guide.

ALBERTP
01-18-2004, 11:15 AM
Copy F5285012.bgl from your FS2002 to the FS2004\Addon Scenery|scenery, the Bay Bridge should show up.

Albert

mal998
01-18-2004, 11:59 AM
James,

Thanks for the tip!

This fix "ain't perfect", but at least I won't be distracted by those big empty spaces where a bridge should be.

Mitch

mal998
01-18-2004, 12:17 PM
Albert,

I followed your suggestion and moved the file.

Low and behold, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge appeared.

Actually, it looks pretty good!

How in the heck did you find THAT particular file, and how would one go about identifying other bridges?

Regards,

Mitch

rpowers46
01-18-2004, 12:25 PM
I'm the one that posted about temp_br3.I installed it the other night and so far I haven't seen any changes.I was looking for the one out of New Orleans across Lake Ponch.Ron

vegad
01-18-2004, 04:45 PM
Albert,

Thanks. This works. It's not aligned exactly with the roads, but it's much better that no bridge at all. Please do tell if you know of other missing bridges that can be imported from FS2002. Someone below asked for the Lake Pontchartrain Causeway near New Orleans. It's the longest bridge in the world, but not on FS9's world. Again, thank you.

Dave Vega

ALBERTP
01-18-2004, 05:29 PM
Dave,

You're welcome.

I found it by trial and error. It takes a little bit of time, but not much.

1. I copied a few BGL files from the same location of FS2002 to the Addon Scenery of FS2004.
2. Then I cut the BGL files in half, and went with the bunch that displayed the bridge.
3. I followed the same procedure, and voila, found the specific file!! No magic....just slight hard work!! Simple process of elimination.

Albert

dandivine
01-19-2004, 05:48 AM
I to added the BGL file for the bay bridge, It looks good.
Thanks.
I was wondering what would happen if you took all those BGL files from that folder in 2002 and copied them and then pasted them to the add on scenery folder in 2004.
I am a chicken or I would try it.
DSH

toddrf
01-19-2004, 07:38 AM
Kathy;

The other solution is what I proposed 2 months ago which is start putting heat on microsoft to render a patch to replace the bridges and other mistakes, to include several ILSs that I have found in South America which do not work.

I figure that MS probably has a spare programmer around that could do some bridge work and get us a patch.

Todd :-wave

eal401
01-19-2004, 12:50 PM
Not only unecessary, but suggested the poster is probably not qualified to own a copy of Flight Sim due to being utterly clueless about the basics of VFR!

My opinion only of course!

FITZY
01-19-2004, 01:25 PM
What does it take to "see" what's in the .bgl files? I would be looking for the Tappan Zee bridge in NY, among others.

RWade
01-20-2004, 05:11 PM
Mitch, that looks great! I travel over the Throgs Neck every day. I'm gonna have to try this. :)

mal998
01-20-2004, 08:58 PM
Thanks RW,

This is a pretty neat little program.
Once you get the hang of controlling the items, it's very easy to use.

I have to thank several helpful flightsimmers, who were kind enough to instruct me.

I'm in the process of adding some scenery to Republic Field, out in Farmingdale, Long Island.

Here are some screenshots of Republic aircraft and added scenery.

Most objects in the picture are add-ons.

Mitch

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dcbd93683bc19.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dcc9d374e42f9.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dcd973804acc8.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dcdbf3829856e.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dcdfc3850a14e.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dce3e38989239.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400dce9838df5476.jpg

kicky9
01-21-2004, 01:19 AM
Good idea ALBERTP !

Here is a couple of other New York bridge files that you can get from FS2002 as well:
Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges: F5285051.bgl, F5285052.bgl
(I think those are the bridge names from the posts made.)

I used a fairly logical method of narrowing what bgl files produce a specific bridge in fs2002. It was reasonably quick. Perhaps I'll look for a few more if anyone wants to suggest any. (I will need the Lat and Long.)


http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400e0b786e1bc70f.jpg

kicky9
01-21-2004, 02:17 AM
Located the Mackinac Bridge bgl file in FS2002 that can be used in FS9 because of the missing bridge:

Here is a Summary List of FS2002 bgl bridges files so far:
Chesapeake Bay bridge: F5285012.bgl
Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges: F5285051.bgl, F5285052.bgl
Mackinac Bridge: f5364871.bgl

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/400e18e77726a495.jpg

dandivine
01-21-2004, 03:36 AM
Heres one if you would, Seven Mile Bridge from Vaca Key to Honda Key

From Vaca Key = Lat 24.70724 North Long 81.12399 West to
Honda Key = Lat 24.68186 North Long 81.22922 West

mal998
01-21-2004, 07:03 AM
Outstanding!


Thanks,

Mitch

kicky9
01-21-2004, 08:24 AM
This FS2002 file will turn on 10 bridges in the St. Louis area when used in FS9.

F5284771.bgl

Revised bridge list:

Chesapeake Bay bridge: F5285012.bgl
Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges: F5285051.bgl, F5285052.bgl
Mackinac Bridge: f5364871.bgl
St Louis: F5284771.bgl (10 bridges)

rservice
01-21-2004, 09:39 AM
Great work on the bridges guys. Maybe this could be made into an anchored thread where the list could be added to.

ALBERTP
01-21-2004, 11:20 AM
New Title : THE RECONSTRUCTION OF FS2004
or THE REBRIDGING OF FS2004

Albert

craigjjs
01-21-2004, 11:26 AM
My problems are the missing Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel (not the same as the Chesapeake Bay Bridge) between Virginia Beach and the VA Eastern Shore and the missing Hampton Roads Tunnel between Norfolk and Hampton VA. Both of these are in the lower Chesapeake Bay. I don't know if they are in FS 2002 or not. I have FS 2000 pro, but not 2002.

If they are in 2002, I will pick up a copy to obtain the bgl files. Can anyone tell me if these bridge/tunnels are in 2002? Thank you.

memphian
01-21-2004, 02:00 PM
How about the two bridges in Memphis that cross the Mississippi?

Lat/Long are (approx) N35d 9m 7.506s, W 90d 3m 0.187s for the first bridge

N 35d 7m 24.060 s, W 90d 3m 49.547s for the second bridge



Thanks!!!!!1

Don

wbomball
01-21-2004, 04:54 PM
Those of you who have installed the FS2002 bgl for the Chesapeake Bay Bridge better check to see if you now have two Washington Monuments. I did!!! Check Post Topic #11764 Also see the Screenshot forum Washington Monument x 2

kicky9
01-21-2004, 07:30 PM
Florida Keys:

The bgl file for the bridge at Vaca Key from FS2002: F5164951.bgl. This fills in the gaps in the roadway from Vaca Key to Honda Key.

Note: Two problems occur when using this file in FS9:
1) a radio tower near KNQX "spurs" into the sky over 1000 feet. See Pix here:
2) one island gap shows a duplicates part of a bridge.

One bridge gap still remains on the roadway near KNQX. FS2002 file (rdl516196.bgl) will fill in the gap but causes numerous occurances of dual highway and bridge crossings. Not recommended but feel free to try it.

Overall, the FS9 bridge alignment on this highway is real crappy.

kicky9
01-21-2004, 07:40 PM
I'm done with this stuff.

If you wish to find your own FS2003 bridge files you may wish to try this.
-pause FS9 and save the flight where you know a bridge occurs in FS2002. Shut down FS9.
-set up an add-on folder for the senery (I do mine outside FS9 program files).
-drill down in the fs2002 program files ...../SCENEDB until you get to your location.
-carefully copy all the bgl files to another working file outside the program files.
-using the bgl files with a prefix of F#####.bgl or rdl#####.bgl select HALF of them and put in your add-on scenery file in FS9.
- Run your saved flight (it's in Paused mode). If the bridge shows then split this these files by half and repeat. If a batch does not show the bridge set the files aside and use the other half.
-Continue this 5-6 times and you'll get your file.
If the bgl file does scary stuff (duplicate images) in FS9 don't use it. Just delete the add-on file.

That's it. Have fun.

Summary of FS2002 bgl bridge files identified to date:
Chesapeake Bay bridge :F5285012.bgl
Whitestone and Throgsneck bridges: F5285051.bgl, F5285052.bgl
Mackinac Bridge: f5364871.bgl
St Louis: F5284771.bgl
Florida Keys: F5164951.bgl
New Orleans Bridges: F5204751.bgl, rdl520188.bgl.

bassarch
01-23-2004, 09:46 AM
I am amazed. In less than a week, over 50 posts in response to my original query. I would just like to express my thanks and appreciation to all of you who have taken the time to research this issue and share your constructive suggetstions.

Roger

Basil
01-23-2004, 10:23 AM
When has MS ever issued a patch to deal with issues like this? In one of the earlier versions -- I cannot remember exactly which one -- MS messed up big time from using outdated magvar data such that most ILS's in the US were unusable. They never fixed it with a patch, and it was like pulling teeth to even get them to acknowledge that they screwed up. Well, users came up with a fix for that particular problem. That's classic MS, at least for FS: ignore the problems, and hope users will come up with fixes that will keep everybody happy until the next release.

MSFS has come a long way, and is the only real game in town for many of us, but their attitude toward their users -- generally one of stone cold silence -- sucks.

Frankly, I think this is part of their marketing strategy. Roll the fixes into the next release as an incentive for users to shell out money for an upgrade. I don't mind paying for new features. I resent paying for things that should have been fixed in prior releases.

-Basil

harlank
01-24-2004, 11:56 AM
In anticipation of the upcoming OSS release of KCMI, I found the 8 bridges over the Missouri River in Kansas City

F5284731.bgl





harlank

harlank
01-24-2004, 01:08 PM
I also found Tampa, although a couple of the bridges dont quite make it all the way across the bay.



F5204911.bgl

harlank

harlank
01-25-2004, 12:36 PM
Memphis

F5244751.bgl


harlank

memphian
01-25-2004, 08:32 PM
Thanks, harlank!!!

Don

harlank
01-25-2004, 10:21 PM
My pleasure, Don.

Seems that almost all the old river cities are missing their bridges.
Heres another.

Cincinnati F5284852.bgl, rdl528192.bgl

the files add four bridges to downtown Cincinnati, and also Riverfront stadium, which was left out of COF. It may be gone, but I think its better than no stadium.

harlank

memphian
01-25-2004, 11:49 PM
It looks like that by adding the Whitestone and Throgs Neck Bridge, you also get the Tappan Zee Bridge back.... it's at N 41d 5.25m, W 73d 48.53m

teecee
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
If you want to spend a few dollars to get at least a bridge of sorts wherever the bridges are missing go get Lago's FSE. very simple to put any of the scenery objects in, and the bridges in there are quite good, as are all the other objects, in fact if you are prepared to use a little "artistic license", you can place objects at almost all your regular reporting points.I have attached a pic of the Batman bridge at ymlt, this is the larger of the bridges avalable, and it is scaleable. I hope the attachment works, I have never done one before.Teecee.

jmagyar
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
You newer people should have been around here when fs9 was first released. Every 3rd post was "Missing Bridge at...."

I totally agree that it was an important ommision. I find the autogen bridges really do not work properly. Too many factors for the system to relize what type of bridge needs to go where. And then I get these massive super structures to cross 50 feet of water, but when crossing the major rivers, I only get a flat bridge. Just wish I knew what type of Algorythm FS uses for placing what type of bridge and where. That would make a world of difference. I have learned to deal with the missing scenery, but definetly agree that it is an issue I am sure will be looked at before the next release.

Example 1. Near Cargo RD at MCI (Kansas City International) Huge bridge, must have been a Federal goverment contract!! This is where they use all the $5000 hammers at.

Example 2. Crossing the Missouri River in Kansas City near MKC. A perfect example of state funded project. Very cheap, cost me a huge property tax increase, and they can't fund my childs education because of it.

tdragger
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
The story I heard was that pre-2004 bridges were drawn using old technology that we abandoned in 2004. That left the creators with the task of rebuilding all the old bridges and they only had so much time to get it done. Thus some were left out.

Those they did put in have a better appearance, though. I've included two screenshots showing bridges near Pittsburgh and you can see the difference. So, you win some you lose some...

ALBERTP
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
Just a thought or two. A couple of years ago, I rented a Cessna 172 at the Bay Bridge airport. I flew to Annapolis and the Solomons and doubled back to the Bay Bridge airport. It was quite a scenic flight!!

I duplicated my flight on FS2004 using FSNAV. Then I went on expanding it more and more until the plan included DCA, Frederick airport, Baltimore, Bay Bridge and back to DCA.

I am attaching the FSNAV flight plan (very low level). Hope you try it and enjoy it.

Albert

ALBERTP
03-18-2005, 09:11 AM
Sorru - here's the attachment again.

Albert