Per Sonar5's Request ... New ANYTHING GOES Forum

[mikeymcc]

Folks,

I am making arrangements with a small site WITH NO AXE TO GRIND which will allow an "anything goes" forum with NO MODERATORS. Basic permission has already been granted.

I will be contacting my friends by email with the link to the new site once a few admin wrinkles have been ironed out.

Anyone who doesn't already have my email address but wants to join up should PM me. Depending on who you are I may give you my email address and we would go from there.

No axe to grind.
No moderators.
FS and other similar topics will be fine.
Religion will be fine.
Politics will be fine.
ANYTHING will be fine except jerks and bores.

Free at last, free at last. (Martin Luther King.)

mikeymcc

[Sonar5]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-03 AT 08:08PM (EST)[p]Hi Mikey,

Sounds good, and I look forward to seeing it come to fruition.

And Thanks. :-)

Regards,
Joe :-wave

EDIT:
Lest anyone be confused by the title in this thread, my request was not for an anything goes forum. My request was for Mikey to discuss this topic in its own thread per my request from here:

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/4394.html
END EDIT:

Here are Picture Galleries of My Trip out west in 2002.

Gallery #1 Pima Air & Space Museum + AMARC (Boneyard) at Davis Monthan AFB, Tucson, Arizona. (over 240 Pictures)
http://www.pbase.com/sonar5/pimaamarc
.
http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg

[ve3ega]

Mikey add me ve3ega@operamail.com :)

[mikeymcc]

Will do ...

The ground rule is, if you haven't been against me then you are welcome even if I don't know you.

(By "against me" I DO NOT mean "disagrees with me" -- I mean ... Well, you know what I mean. I actually LIKE disagreement because that is when I learn the most.)

[Luke]

>I am making arrangements with a small site WITH NO AXE
>TO GRIND which will allow an "anything goes" forum with
>NO MODERATORS. Basic permission has already been granted.

Sorry Mike, but if the purpose of this forum is to permit posts a la "Mohammed molested 9 year old girls" then I'm afraid you'll need to count me out. It's one thing to get passionate and argumentative in the heat of a discussion and go a touch too far, but pre-meditated and deliberate attempts to do nothing more than offend don't turn me on.

The problem we have is that people do too much talking at each other and beating each other over the head with the "truth". Every side is so convinced that they are right that they get worked into a partisan frenzy and ignore all others.

Having moderators is a useful safety valve - because it allows a third party to step in from time to time and say that someone has crossed the line, and maybe they should reconsider. Non-moderated forums only work if all the participants have a fundamental respect for each others' positions - they may not agree, but they at least concede that it is possible for reasonable people to hold such a point of view. If you don't have that respect, your forum will rapidly deteriorate and disintigrate.

Good luck!

Luke

[mikeymcc]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-03 AT 08:52PM (EST)[p]In another thread a moderator posted "No freedom of speech in a privately owned and operated forum".

I think that statement is accurate for some privately owned and operated forums and inaccurate for others. For example, where I and my (new) friends are going there will be complete freedom of speech provided that matters of copyright are respected.

I may ask that the MEMBERSHIP be restricted, but there will be no speech police in that forum -- and in the end even the membership decisions will not be mine -- and maybe not anybody's.

[cookie99]

Just as well you said that I could disagree with you Mike or I would not be allowed.

I am back in the living and things look good lots of pain but "no pain no gain"

So once again if I sound a bit vague it's the drugs "I'm not as think as you stoned I am"

Keep us informed Mike.


http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da3c8470134565a.jpg

[ve3ega]

...shhhh there may be one of them watching ":-lol !

[mikeymcc]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-03 AT 09:42PM (EST)[p]Reply to #4 ...

"Non-moderated forums only work if all the participants have a fundamental respect for each others' positions - they may not agree, but they at least concede that it is possible for reasonable people to hold such a point of view. If you don't have that respect, your forum will rapidly deteriorate and disintigrate"

I agree completely. That's why I'm going to try to arrange to have someone police the membership rather than the speech -- I will propose people to be kicked out and I hope the site owner will simply agree to my requests.

The site owner and I have not discussed this yet so I have no idea where he would stand on that issue. But even if he elects never to kick anyone out the rest of us will always be free simply to ignore what an offender has had to say ...

... In fact, I should say this to people who may be mulling over whether to join up:

If you can't stand heat, don't come into our kitchen.

edit: Re heat, there is going to be a newsletter which may or may not have anything to do with the new site. The working title for the newsletter is "FlammoNuclear War". My friends will be receiving a trial copy of the first issue so they can decide whether to subscribe.

[Sonar5]

"The problem we have is that people do too much talking at each other and beating each other over the head with the "truth"."

:-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol :-lol

Truth.....Difficult Concept to comprehend?

Not for me..... :-)


Here are Picture Galleries of My Trip out west in 2002.

Gallery #1 Pima Air & Space Museum + AMARC (Boneyard) at Davis Monthan AFB, Tucson, Arizona. (over 240 Pictures)
http://www.pbase.com/sonar5/pimaamarc
.
http://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg

[tailboom]

Don't you think someone that thinks that 'da prophet is a great
religous leader, might want to know the truth.

Facts are verifiable, historical not hysterical...

If it upsets someone,well it should shouldn't it...

Pull yer head outa the politically correct morass, it's a real life and death world bud...

:-wave http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e0e635e08f69c8c.jpg :-wave
!!ASK ME ABOUT MY SIGNATURE!!

[Luke]

>I agree completely. That's why I'm going to try to
>arrange to have someone police the membership rather than the
>speech -- I will propose people to be kicked out

Well, at that point you're not really having freedom of speech, now then are you? If you want to restrict the membership then you don't have all that much freedom, either. It reminds me of a joke my father used to tell me.

An American and a Russian were arguing over their freedoms. The American said that he was free, since he could stand on a street corner and yell as loud as he wanted, "President Nixon is a crook!". The Russian retorted that he too was free, since he could stand in Red Square and yell as loud as he wanted, "Nixon is a crook!" too.

You have a small, screened group of individuals who are free to say what they want. The Outer Marker didn't get the way it is because of the rabble coming in off of the street, it got this way because a small minority of people aren't interested in having civilized discussions, they're just downright rude. And I don't believe you're going to get freedom of speech AND get rid of that.

>If you can't stand heat, don't come into our kitchen.

It's one thing to stand heat, it's another thing to tolerate rudeness. There is a difference.

Cheers!

Luke

[Luke]

>Truth.....Difficult Concept to comprehend? Not for me..... :-)

The Scribes and Pharises were also convinced that they posessed the truth. While truth is not relative, people's perceptions of it is are. It is not hard for a person convinced of his or her posession of the truth to slip over the edge to becoming an arrogant, rude fool, like they did.

Luke

[jaugust]

Luke,

I do not consider it partisan to believe in a thing. "Partisan" implies a political party, Republican, Democrat, Green, etc. and whatever messages they convey to their own members. To be a Republican or Democrat means, IMO, contributing time and/or money to that party regardless of whatever platform the party stands on.

Since I do not contribute time/money to the Republican Party I do not consider myself "partisan". But because most, if not all, Republican candidates more closely reflect my own beliefs I have a tendency to vote in that direction.

It is beliefs, not partisanship, on which my comments are based and not a commitment to a "party".

Cheers!

JAugust

[mikeymcc]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-03 AT 01:43AM (EST)[p]Reply to #11 ...

"It's one thing to stand heat, it's another thing to tolerate rudeness. There is a difference"

You bet there's a difference. That's why I'm emigrating and hoping to take some learned but non-rude opponents with me.

Leaving FlightSim is the only way I know to avoid the spoilers. It is a secondary issue whether I go to another site since a) I have the email addresses of many people I care about (mostly learned opponents) and b) much of the interesting discourse can be conducted by email.

Strictly speaking, a web site forum is needed only for grandstanding. While I do enjoy grandstanding it is not the main attraction. The main attraction is exchanging thoughts and ideas with those who, for the most part, have a viewpoint very different from my own.

I grew up in Greenwich Village in NYC. My parents' apartment had a steady stream of very interesting people who would be laughed off this site in thirty seconds. Just a few who spring to mind immediately ...

... A cowboy from Rawlins who gave my sister a genuine rattler rattle and who gave me a silver dollar which I still possess, name unknown, but who sparked in me a life-long interest in The Old West.

... Rowland Watts, then head of the ACLU.

... Colonel LeRoy Hacker from Benjamin O. Davis' staff.

... Joe Hassen, secretary to Robert Oppenheimer at Los Alamos.

... Rubi Roth, the painter.

... Norman Thomas.

There were dozens of others whose names I never got. We later moved to Queens but I went to high school (and college) in Manhattan where I continued to bump into the same crowd, but this time in the form of their sons and daughters, or people I had been to boarding school with ...

... Joy Leibowitz, daughter of Judge Sam (Hang 'Em High) Leibowitz.

... Michael Sobel (read up on the Rosenberg case).

... Woody Gould, the screenwriter.

... Allan Brill, the terrorism expert you see on TV sometimes.

... Steve Sherman, the federal prosecutor you see on TV sometimes

... Sue Simmons, my sister's friend, who is now the leading NYC newscaster.

... Inger Stevens, the actress, who lived with us for six months.

... Tuesday Weld (nobody but I dared speak with her).

and so on. As the years went by I found myself attending parties where the guest list was mainly system programmers, but I kept running into the same kind of interesting Bohemian people ...

... Men who wore earrings before that was a fashion.

... A friend who had taught himself Japanese so he could learn the game of Go Moku from the masters ...

... Ex-you-name-its: Gold miners, cosmologists, mathematicians, airline pilots, H-bomb designers, and on and on and on.

Somehow we each found our way to this exciting and demanding discipline before the world even knew we existed ... And judging by the two "genetics research" Christmas parties I went to recently it is happening again -- the Bohemians are finding their way to The Hot Spot -- and the rest of you don't even know they exist, and you won't know for another 10-20 years, which is when all the wannabe's will flood into the field.

So ... That's what I want -- the Bohemians from this site, so I will have somebody to talk to, if only by email.

Folks, you know how to reach me -- Private Mail -- and you don't have to leave FlightSim to do it, nor do you have to reveal in public who you really are.

It is in times of adversity that you find out who your REAL friends are, and I would like to thank my real friends.

And Lou, I've been running FS on and off since the Apple One version, so there, Mister Smarty Pants.

Mike McCarthy

[wileyecoyote]

Mike, shoot me an e-mail, would ya? Thanks! :-)

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e14bc3d48cd6f22.gif

[mikeymcc]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-03 AT 10:11AM (EST)[p]Johan,

For technical reasons I have to work this forum using IE6. However, for security reasons I will only do email via Netscape.

Thus I must PM you, so kindly check PM.

edit: Oops, that isn't going to work with you. Tell you what: Try going to http://www.goldencanyon.com and email me from there. That is the old consulting services version of my website, which is going to be updated before our product announcement.

[Carl_LIMF]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-03 AT 01:48PM (EST)[p]does contructive critisism count as "against"

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/DCForumID2/3881.html

Ps. never did see the edit about my life sentence, very petty mike, and uncalled for.

Thankyou for your time.

Carl LIMF

edit = constructive, missed the ##### "s" :-)

[mikeymcc]

Reply to #17 ...

People can read what I wrote, and then what you wrote, and then what I wrote, and they can make their own minds up, yes?

We are all serving life sentences, the question is whether we like our internal cellmate. I really like mine.