MS Flight J. Howard interview

[jomni]

http://forum.avsim.net/index.php?app=ccs&module=pages&section=pages&folder=/AVSIM%20Pages&id=8

In a nutshell: It has been performing beyond their "expectations". DLC take up is good. They have reached an audience that is wider than previous FS products. They are encouraged to develop more to this market. They will not provide the whole world and will focus on local mission-based situations.

--- So Flight will never cater to us enthusiasts.

He also hinted that 3rd party may come in the future but not now as they can't support them in any way.

Bash away!

[JSkorna]

The first sign of "bash away" and this will be locked.

[jomni]

The first sign of "bash away" and this will be locked.

Lol! I think this should put an end to the bashing as it confirms that the product is for a differnt market.
MS has clearly made up their mind and no amount of bashing will be productive.

Simmers should just stick to what they have or look elsewhere. :)

[mith]

The first sign of "bash away" and this will be locked.

Why is it that forum members can't speak their mind about MS's new product? It's not about "BASHING" but about member talking about "flight".... I understand that personal attacks are not acceptable..... but discussing a new product should not be subject to locking the thread based on the face that "some" of us are not happy with it.

Has Flightsim.com been been warned my MS about not allowing too many negative comments about the new release of Flight???? Because it sure seems like it to me.

[Leo112]

The first sign of "bash away" and this will be locked.

I know your serious but this sounds funny reading it. :)

[Ragtopjohnny]

Why is it that forum members can't speak their mind about MS's new product? It's not about "BASHING" but about member talking about "flight".... I understand that personal attacks are not acceptable..... but discussing a new product should not be subject to locking the thread based on the face that "some" of us are not happy with it.

Has Flightsim.com been been warned my MS about not allowing too many negative comments about the new release of Flight???? Because it sure seems like it to me.

Not just about Flight --- mind you --- another thread was locked in the comments section for no reason what so ever that I made about Aerofly review containing little to no information, which it didn't.

Maybe because I bought up the incomplete REX review as well before, but I stated facts, not fictional or "hearsay" negativities about a product.

John Thuot II

[Leo112]

Why is it that forum members can't speak their mind about MS's new product? It's not about "BASHING" but about member talking about "flight".... I understand that personal attacks are not acceptable..... but discussing a new product should not be subject to locking the thread based on the face that "some" of us are not happy with it.

Has Flightsim.com been been warned my MS about not allowing too many negative comments about the new release of Flight???? Because it sure seems like it to me.

What it seems like is you guys want to go on and on forever about how you hate Flight (we've heard you already). I went on and on about how I hated FSX and I still dislike it to this day. The darn thing still can run smoothly on all but the most robust machines today six years after it's release and even with the most robust hardware it still needs tweaks. I had to come to a point that enough was enough. If I didn't like FSX stay with FS9 which I did. Now there's a new product here that actually runs well on most hardware on day one. There's valid reasons not to like Flight but give it a chance. Repeating the same diatribe over and over again on different forums that allow it is dumb. Many of you haven't even spent a week with the product to know what the heck your talking about. I gave FSX six years to finally work, heck I was going to convert over to it if it weren't for Flight. You guys won't give Flight a day and it's free, that's just flat out ridicules... For me the only option is to give this new effort a chance to mature, see what happens. So far I feel Flight is worth it after seeing the performance and flight dynamics. Since this is not a static release on DVD's maybe with enough support we can get what we want. Your going to get nothing snubbing the product, just an aging badly coded piece of software called FSX that will never run like it should. In a year if Microsoft doesn't deliver then there's a valid reason to start in on them again. So let's move on and see what happens.

[angels355]

Interesting thread over here:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/366785-joshua-howard-interview-with-avsim/page__st__100

[scruffyduck]

It seems to me that while some of us may not like what was said it comes as no surprise. Like it or not it is consistent with what has already been said and the path of the product. For those that it will not cater for then FS9/FSX has a long and fruitful life with the full support of many third party developers. I have said it before but it still comes to mind. FS9, FSX, Flight, AeroFly, XPlane etc are not mutually exclusive. Putting Flight on your computer will not somehow spirit FS9/FSX away. Of course there are things I wish for Flight but in the meantime I am enjoying it along with the other sims depending on my mood :)

[jomni]

True. I have FSX, X-Plane 10, and Flight in my computer. And FS9 in my laptop.
Only FSX and FS9 cannot live together for me. Lol!

[JSkorna]

Why is it that forum members can't speak their mind about MS's new product? It's not about "BASHING" but about member talking about "flight".... I understand that personal attacks are not acceptable..... but discussing a new product should not be subject to locking the thread based on the face that "some" of us are not happy with it.

Has Flightsim.com been been warned my MS about not allowing too many negative comments about the new release of Flight???? Because it sure seems like it to me.

1. This forum is for people who enjoy Flight and want to visit to have a good time, not read about what Flight is not.

2. Discussion is different than bashing or going off topic.

3. No, MS has not said a word.

4. If you do not like this, my advice still stands, move along to another FS website.

[mgh]

I just want to point out to everyone that with the actual release of "Microsoft Flight" the focus of this forum needs to change.

You've all had several months to complain about how "Flight" is not the sim you want, how Microsoft has let us down, how you won't be using "Flight", etc. That's fine, we all needed to get through that stage. However, with "Flight" actually becoming available there are going to be people using it, who want to use it, and this forum is for them, just like the FS2004 forum is for people who use FS2004 and the FSX forum is for people who use FSX. For those of you who have clearly stated you will not be using "Flight" it's time for you to return to the forum(s) for the sims you actually do use.


Surely that's clear enoufgh?

[angels355]

Mith may have been misunderstood, he's a friendly avid user of Flight if I recall.

The interview pertains to me also, Howard responds to questions about past customers, and the FS franchise, and FS11. I have purchased 20 or more units of MS FS plus windows, I may need to purchase three to six units of W7 or 8. And I can also afford the entire PMDG catalog. I read Howard's interview because he is in charge of the FS franchise and its' direction. Jomni and I are friends not only from this forum but also the XPlane forum and the Screen Shot forum.

[vonBobo]

It's not so much that I have to learn to like a new and different product- even though I don't find the time to play it, I really have no problem with Flight on its own. The problem for me is that this marks the death of my favorite video game franchise ever.

I got my first job at 15, not to buy a car or a skateboard or cool clothes, but to purchase a computer to play Flight Simulator. After 25 years of enjoyment, some expensive jeans wearing pie chart is telling me my wants and entertainment dollar is no longer needed.

The saddest thing to me is that this didn't have to occur this way, MS could have easily put the Flight game elements within a new FS simulator. There are many justifications as to why MS ditched their legacy fans, some may be valid, others are simple smoke screen rhetoric. Either way, MS chose to abandon me, instead of finding solutions to suit me and the new customers.

[StringBean]

...MS could have easily put the Flight game elements within a new FS simulator.

...and we probably would not have seen a release for another 2-3 years unless you want another sim locked to the CPU and mired in the same old code we have seen for most of that 25 years.

I think we should wait that 2-3 years and see where Flight goes before passing judgement.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

peace,
the Bean

[raimondo2]

...and we probably would not have seen a release for another 2-3 years unless you want another sim locked to the CPU and mired in the same old code we have seen for most of that 25 years.

I think we should wait that 2-3 years and see where Flight goes before passing judgement.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

peace,
the Bean

Let' all wait in hope - be patient grasshoppers - only another 2 or 3 years to go !! ;)

[vonBobo]

...and we probably would not have seen a release for another 2-3 years unless you want another sim locked to the CPU and mired in the same old code we have seen for most of that 25 years.
These statements are the smoke and mirror rhetoric I was referring too. Who said I want the same code old code and that I couldn't wait another 2-3 years? (I just bought FSX in July 2011.) But in my mind, there is no absolute concrete reason why Flight had to be built this way. Look at the missions in FSX- isn't that exactly what Flight is doing, but without the world and the vast 3rd party/user library? Look past the new graphics and the enhanced control (things that we get with every new release)- the main top new features of Flight is the stunning lack of content and diversity. Nothing about it is so new that they were forced to throw away the old simmer crowd.


I think we should wait that 2-3 years and see where Flight goes before passing judgement.

Just my thoughts, anyway.

peace,
the Bean

Wait 2-3 years for what? Josh is telling us exactly what the plan is:
"Creating the whole world is not one of our goals for Flight"
"Long-haul flight is not one of the scenarios that we believe is interesting for the bulk of our audience."

He even admitted to not listening to the simmer's concerns with Flight. To clarify- MS built Flight knowing that they were alienating their legacy FS customers. It's not my fault that it doesn't appeal to me, it was designed that way on purpose.

Anyway, thanks for hearing me rant. I was getting tired of the simmer's being explained away as hardcore loons that don't understand business decisions, and I wanted to throw a little of my soul into the discussion. Flight on everyone! (I still believe Flight is the best game ever for the kids that dream of flying, but live with a console budget. I would have been all over this game if I didn't already own a stable FSX system)

[raimondo2]

i do not know for what

but some are waiting apparently - even after Howard let the chickens out of the hen !

[benEggleston16]

I may need to purchase three to six units of W7 or 8.
A bit off topic but why?

Back on topic, we already knew FLIGHT was a change in direction, JH confirming it doesn't make it more true, as for 'bashing' I agree with the administrators, this forum is for flight use and support not criticism

[angels355]

A bit off topic but why?

Back on topic, we already knew FLIGHT was a change in direction, JH confirming it doesn't make it more true, as for 'bashing' I agree with the administrators, this forum is for flight use and support not criticism

FSX won't run without them. Have to run.

[benEggleston16]

But why six?
In UK at least, each copy is £100 minimum and you get three installs, so you would be paying about $1000 ( actually you would probably get 'ultimate' or wahtever the win 8 equivalent is) for 18 installs, you don't have 18 PCs do you? And that would be 18 needing upgrading as new ones now already hve the latest windows

[jomni]

FSX won't run without them. Have to run.


So you're hedging your bet on FSX for the next 30 years. :)

[barbarotto]

i read the CEO of flights interview- last paragraph states basically that if flight does good -good- if bad microsoft will keep all options open, they will follow the $ of coarse...to quote Kieth Moon-jimmy pages new band will go down in the north atlantic like a great big -LED ZEPPELIN-hope flight does the same so we get a real sim!

[angels355]

But why six?
In UK at least, each copy is £100 minimum and you get three installs, so you would be paying about $1000 ( actually you would probably get 'ultimate' or wahtever the win 8 equivalent is) for 18 installs, you don't have 18 PCs do you? And that would be 18 needing upgrading as new ones now already hve the latest windows

That is a good suggestion, thanks. I'll have to call them and ask about that. I have six units of FSX Gold, I have near term plans for three systems so far. Q9450, 1155 Ivy Bridge, near term, then next year 2011 socket Ivy Bridge. If it's cheap maybe I'll do an AMD Piledriver when it comes out? Actually I have 13 pc's in front of me, maybe five more that are working downstairs, Maybe 15 to 20 cases and systems that need repair, but that is just a guess, haven't counted lately; but have thrown out 10 to 15 not long ago. However just have one so far good enough to buy W7 or 8 for. Planning to throw away some excess, maybe a lot of excess. In order to run flight simulators it seems that hardware and windows are somewhat of an obsession.

Not wanting to close the thread, what Flight IS, according to the interview, IS the FS franchise. And J Howard is in charge of it. I think the game department normally focuses more on explorations and adventures in general in a small highly detailed area. Howard said that they are trying to make the flight dynamics of the aircraft very excellent to set themselves apart from other games that casually include flying such as Grand Theft Auto or Battlefield 3. But Flight is sort of a wholesome alternative. MS FS is an even more wholesome environment in my opinion and is good for any age, after all I was flying a real plane from 7 to 11 years old. Some people doubt their sales numbers or relative success with the new marketing plan, however it doesn't matter much because they are a super wealthy company and have the power to do whatever they want regardless of the numbers. For example I'm told that is how they expanded XBox, ignoring the bad numbers, and continuing to expand it until it became profitable. I'm going to try the Xplane 10 demo, they have friendly EULA's. Have to complete a bunch of errands before I start buying addons and hardware, just a matter of drudgery.

I was earnestly trying to participate in a flying challenge, comparing the two worlds, flight simulator vs flight. However because I have a legal background, read the XBox EULA and thought the terms were unfriendly so didn't want to sign the agreement. Very few people read the EULA's, now or in past years. One game clerk told me, "No, you don't have to read it, just accept it and start playing." That's not a good way to live one's life, and minors should consult their parents as they are not old enough to sign contracts. So I never got to participate in the flying challenge. I have however recreated in the past super harsh conditions at Hamburg's notorious airport doing crosswind landings, and have made super harsh conditions in Alaska, both times flying big jets. Any way, as you are still in school, ask your teachers to teach you something about Law and business, it is a very important thing to be knowledgeable about in life for the future. And always consult your parents for guidance.

For Grand Theft Auto, a competitor to Flight (because several other players told me so), I read the posted online EULA. It has the reverse piracy clause, but not sure that i really care that much about that. The XBox EULA of course has that also. Might get GTA4 if i don't have to participate on the XBox online system. Haven't read the Crysis 2 or Battlefield 3 EULA's, they are probably fine. Battlefield 2 is on discount I wonder if I should get it. I'm not actually off topic, when these difficulties with Flight the product come up my mind wanders to alternatives.

But I hope you enjoy yourself. After I finish my errands, I hope to buy maybe the entire PMDG catalog, and spend time reading huge aircraft manuals like I have always wanted for many years. Also want to find out if they allow an upload of real world SIDs and STARs from the FAA etc.

Study diligently to get ahead in your future. And participate in athletics and learn a musical instrument.

[angels355]

So you're hedging your bet on FSX for the next 30 years. :)

I'll have to disagree with that, more like 33 1/3 years, and here are my reasons...xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm kidding! Actually MS management's choices and directions are so stunning, I am left wondering about the future. I hope the complexity of PMDG aircraft will keep me occupied while the future is sorted out. I have a feeling that things will work out. Perhaps someone will provide a 64 bit fully multithreaded DX11/12 or Opengl engine that will guide us to a new future. Can't remember, was it you that said that XP will become 64 bit later, and is multithreaded? My older sims, FS8 and back are still fun to fly and are all up and running, but I'm anxious to have more complexity because I feel there is a huge gap in my aviation experience between the simulated and real world, such as SIDs and STARs and ATC.

I'm sure you have read the XP EULA, they are usually friendly in the extreme. For a person that simply loves the high fidelity of the FS series (is that a bad thing?), it may be difficult to understand this gigantic change in direction and philosophy by the FS franchise. But it seems like a show of immense power and wealth to be able to not only leave FS customers behind, for some reason (?), but also at the same time establish an entirely new market for an entirely new game. A stunning accomplishment in the exhibition of power and wealth. We ordinary long time customers are left in dismay, but this is what MS wants to do. For some reason it reminds me of the Roman Empire, displaying their might and glory, like we have the power to do this, and the wealth to make the market. I think that Ricardo Ny1 was right, we are all just ordinary flight simulator customers, and there are a huge number of us who fly jets of varying sizes and probably most of us fly airliners. To call us "hardcore" is like calling everyone who uses the FS series hardcore. In other words simply being a FS customer makes you "hardcore", and MS seems to say it in a manner that implies we are less desirable. I've always thought they are similar to used car salesmen so one has to take it as a grain of salt, for example take a look at their packaging as has been pointed out before (loki) and illustrated by an MS insider http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUXnJraKM3k . This is so funny!

Will the Alaska expansion pack be so awesome that FS devotees will flock to it? It will be interesting to see. To me, it is just common sense fun to fly IFR around the world in big fast jets. My roadblock is, the EULA, and the cost, I mean I could be flying a PMDG instead. So why do FS devotees care so much about the Flight issue??(need more question marks here)????????? It's because, Flight IS the FS franchise. We just don't want to accept it as a fact. It is however opening up many new worlds for me, BF3, maybe GTA4, F1 and Lemans driving games, XP10, etc, not to mention the twenty units of past FS that are still fun, especially the last two. My hard drives runneth over! Also, perhaps the immense disappointment will motivate me more to concentrate on real world flying and credentials. Guess it is all in the way you look at it. My HDD's runneth over, and RW flying, therefore my Oktoberfest stein is half full! Maybe overflowing! Have to look on the bright side. And I've made so many friends here which I am so grateful for, even if during a crisis response to the loss of FS.

One thing I thought I would mention as an afterthought. Mr Howard says that they can monitor what we actually do in Flight so they can better respond to adapting Flight to what the users want more of. Wonder what he meant by that exactly? Do they send back data of exactly what type of flying and planes we fly? I'm sure it's not intrusive or invasive, but it seems strange. Have they ever considered just asking us what we want, for example thousands vocally clammering for FS11 and a higher fidelity flight simulator? Another thought occurred to me, if they want to reach a large audience, how about lowering the cost of FSnext? But what do we know we're just jet jockeys. Little splash of jet fuel on the chest and face and we're ready for a night on the town! Oh yeah let those engines wail!

[loki]

One thing I thought I would mention as an afterthought. Mr Howard says that they can monitor what we actually do in Flight so they can better respond to adapting Flight to what the users want more of. Wonder what he meant by that exactly? Do they send back data of exactly what type of flying and planes we fly?

They have similar features built into most of their programs, including Office and Windows.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/EN-US/default.mspx


Have they ever considered just asking us what we want, for example thousands vocally clammering for FS11 and a higher fidelity flight simulator?

There was a survey a couple years ago from MS. Who knows what they got from it though. Thousands clambering for something may not be enough in the eyes of the management in Redmond.

[angels355]

They have similar features built into most of their programs, including Office and Windows.

http://www.microsoft.com/products/ceip/EN-US/default.mspx



There was a survey a couple years ago from MS. Who knows what they got from it though. Thousands clambering for something may not be enough in the eyes of the management in Redmond.

The game studio team are experts in mainstream gaming, small regions with adventures, point systems and ranks. So interpreting the data through their eyes could be very different from what a flight simmer would interpret. Our interpretation might be better ATC is imperative, their interpretation might be "need more ukulele and need it fast!!"

Wish they could have this issue on the Simpsons, experts on the human condition..... "D'oh!"

[fxsttcb]

One thing I thought I would mention as an afterthought. Mr Howard says that they can monitor what we actually do in Flight so they can better respond to adapting Flight to what the users want more of. Wonder what he meant by that exactly? Do they send back data of exactly what type of flying and planes we fly? I'm sure it's not intrusive or invasive, but it seems strange.I find that statement by Mr. Howard Hilarious!
I can hear them in the conference room now: "Gee folks, lookie here, everyone must love the Icon A5, that's all most of them have flown so far, maybe we ought to focus on more planes of that type." and "Hawaii is really popular with everybody that has downloaded flight so far. Maybe we should continue with small mission oriented scenery areas."

As you say Angels, "D'oh!" :rolleyes: ...Don

[shanwick]

The interview was interesting and confirmed for me that my original decision to stay with FS9 was the correct decison.

David

[n4gix]

I find that statement by Mr. Howard Hilarious!
I can hear them in the conference room now: "Gee folks, lookie here, everyone must love the Icon A5, that's all most of them have flown so far, maybe we ought to focus on more planes of that type." and "Hawaii is really popular with everybody that has downloaded flight so far. Maybe we should continue with small mission oriented scenery areas."

As you say Angels, "D'oh!" :rolleyes: ...Don

What might happen though if their data tracking reveals that there are many thousands of users trying to fly from Hawaii to Alaska, and vice-versa?

[fxsttcb]

Actually Bill I'm hoping for millions to try! It just seems kinda weird that they would be tracking user's preferences when the selections are so limited.
I am having fun with it. I'm just not that into chasing awards and aerocaches, so, after I've made a couple circuits I land and exit. 'til the next time!..Don

[mith]

Mith may have been misunderstood, he's a friendly avid user of Flight if I recall.



I guess some are wearing "negative nelly" reading filters because you are right, not all my comments have been negative... in fact, I have stated that I have had great experiences with Flight. But I was told I can leave if I don't like it here, so that's comforting.

[davidjones]

What might happen though if their data tracking reveals that there are many thousands of users trying to fly from Hawaii to Alaska, and vice-versa?

Given the available aircraft and their rather odd perception of the market, I dare say they'd make a rowboat add-on...;)

DJ

[richlp]

Given the available aircraft and their rather odd perception of the market, I dare say they'd make a rowboat add-on...;)

DJ

...or at least a paddle in the Icon...

[angels355]

...or at least a paddle in the Icon...

Paddle, and ukulele!

"While my ukulele gently weeps" George Harrison

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puSkP3uym5k

"Smells like teen spirit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KZjnFZvCNc

It's a long long way to Alaska.......

[barbarotto]

long hauls example phnl-panc are not going to happen or be allowed-CEO OF FLIGHT STATES IN INTERVIEW-SO HENCE NO NEED FOR COMMERCIAL AIRLINES-ga aircraft -local flights only-oh well

[vonBobo]

long hauls example phnl-panc are not going to happen or be allowed-CEO OF FLIGHT STATES IN INTERVIEW-SO HENCE NO NEED FOR COMMERCIAL AIRLINES-ga aircraft -local flights only-oh well

There wont be any long haul flights, but there could still be commercial airliners. Without a world to fly around, they will have to come up with a creative system to implement it. Making take off and landing challenges would be easy enough- but there will have to be some kind of time warp or even a portal if you want to fly from scenery area to scenery area.

I don't care where their audience comes from. Anyone flying this game will eventually ask MS for a 747. Then again, Flight user data already suggests that 100% of the flight hours have been small GA. Obviously no one dreams of flying a 747; it's probably too complicated (hard core) and will scare off the more flight curious types.

[angels355]

I guess some are wearing "negative nelly" reading filters because you are right, not all my comments have been negative... in fact, I have stated that I have had great experiences with Flight. But I was told I can leave if I don't like it here, so that's comforting.

Generally speaking this is a very friendly website. Sorry you were misunderstood by others perhaps. I read some of your past posts and they were very nice, friendly, and enthusiastic about Flight. So many people have been upset about Flight here, and at other simulator forums, and on Facebook (I don't have an account there, I think I've visited Facebook once). that some people are on edge.

Enjoy some more ukulele music:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r_6pTtGwhI

[alaskancrab]

Odd when I read the comments I got the impression by "hardcore" he meant folks that understood Flight is still a sim. Not the folks who moaned and groaned about "flight computer emulators"... that would be you guys.

[JSkorna]

Saying I don't like summer textures in January, 19 AI aircraft, or 23000+ empty airports is different than calling something junk or garbage.

[jomni]

There wont be any long haul flights, but there could still be commercial airliners. Without a world to fly around, they will have to come up with a creative system to implement it. Making take off and landing challenges would be easy enough- but there will have to be some kind of time warp or even a portal if you want to fly from scenery area to scenery area.

I don't care where their audience comes from. Anyone flying this game will eventually ask MS for a 747. Then again, Flight user data already suggests that 100% of the flight hours have been small GA. Obviously no one dreams of flying a 747; it's probably too complicated (hard core) and will scare off the more flight curious types.

Don't forget, there is now the magic 'N' key. With this you can just focus on the take-off and landing, the most busy and exciting parts of the flight. But I don't think we'll get complex airliners. They might be dumbed down to cater to the new target market (not us).

[csefton]

Why is it that forum members can't speak their mind about MS's new product? It's not about "BASHING" but about member talking about "flight".... I understand that personal attacks are not acceptable..... but discussing a new product should not be subject to locking the thread based on the face that "some" of us are not happy with it.

Has Flightsim.com been been warned my MS about not allowing too many negative comments about the new release of Flight???? Because it sure seems like it to me.

I agree too!.....the getting locked threat is getting a bit petty and counter productive....maybe the reason everyone wants to go on about its negatives is they feel let down and bitter that this garbage replaced FS11!.....whislt i realise that negativity isnt the most conducive attitude for any forum...but neither is continually locking threads!...

[jomni]

This thread has been very civil so far. It's much worse in AVSim with Fanatics on both ends of the spectrum.

[angels355]

This thread has been very civil so far. It's much worse in AVSim with Fanatics on both ends of the spectrum.

There was a fanatic Flight supporter that had an avatar of someone aiming a large gun, and he was really obnoxious, and wouldn't quit. There was a pretty blonde who talked about undie garments, we should have more of that!

Personally, I'm thinking it could be 3 or more years before we see an MS FS, if ever. I think "we're stuffed" as the Aussies say --movie "The Dish".

[JSkorna]

I agree too!.....the getting locked threat is getting a bit petty and counter productive....maybe the reason everyone wants to go on about its negatives is they feel let down and bitter that this garbage replaced FS11!.....whislt i realise that negativity isnt the most conducive attitude for any forum...but neither is continually locking threads!...

What part of the purpose of the Flight Forum don't you understand?

[fxsttcb]

....maybe the reason everyone wants to go on about its negatives is they feel let down and bitter that this garbage replaced FS11!.....Seeing that this is the Flight Forum, maybe, we need to realize that Flight is not FS11, will never be FS11. We don't continually discuss or compare FS9 in the FSX Forum, nor vice-versa. Why should this forum be any different. There are pages and pages of what Flight isn't. How about we start discussing what Flight is, and focus on issues we need to overcome, or simply post something neat you have found or done. Or hopes for it.(See below)

Besides all that, this thread is titled "MS Flight J. Howard interview".
From both Tom Allensworth's and IGN's interviews, there is absolutely no doubt in my my military mind that Flight's continuing focus will be as a game.
IMO, the least they could do is offer a few hardcore simming entities. Even ONE will "qualify" their user preference tracking. Give it a chance.
My question is; How do you gage the acceptance of a non-entity, Mr. Howard? If you want to know how profitable "Hardcore" DLC can be, it has to exist.
I'm willing to bet that a Dash-8, ATR-72, or even B737ER, with fully functional Nav gear and AP, would outsell your P-51(sans cockpit).

North to Alaska (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3tAJS0wpRY), you go North, the rush is on. Ahhhhh! Good ol' Johnny Horton! :D...Don

[Nels_Anderson]

Seeing that this is the Flight Forum, maybe, we need to realize that Flight is not FS11, will never be FS11. We don't continually discuss or compare FS9 in the FSX Forum, nor vice-versa. Why should this forum be any different. There are pages and pages of what Flight isn't. How about we start discussing what Flight is, and focus on issues we need to overcome, or simply post something neat you have found or done. Or hopes for it.

Just a reminder that this is indeed true. You guys have all had many, many months to complain about all this. Frankly, there's hardly any new information in the just released interview; it's all things we've known for a long time, though some people still can't seem to believe. If Flight is not for you, then move on. If you actually want to use Flight and discuss it, this is the forum for you.

[vonBobo]

Just a reminder that this is indeed true. You guys have all had many, many months to complain about all this. Frankly, there's hardly any new information in the just released interview; it's all things we've known for a long time, though some people still can't seem to believe. If Flight is not for you, then move on. If you actually want to use Flight and discuss it, this is the forum for you.

I understand the direction this forum wants to go, and I can appreciate that.

However, I think the new interview is entirely relevant. I thought a lot of the future of Flight was speculation by both sides ("wait and see" is STILL being quoted even in this thread), and this is the first time my fears were confirmed by MS. I don't see anything wrong with a little constructive mourning from us. Other than this thread not being a J Howard love fest, I think it has been relatively mature.

[angels355]

I don't want to cause a problem, but this interview was more specific and answered many pointed questions about the flight simulator series itself and past traditional flight simulator customer's desires who have been waiting for FSNext for years, and that the FS franchise is still alive only it is Flight and it will probably be three years before they will even consider FSNext. My point is, this thread could have been posted in the FS9 or FSX forums also, Mr Allensworth represented the traditional FS devotees, and was asking specific questions about our interests, not just about the future of Flight, I'm not faulting previous interviewers but they either knew nothing about FS such as newspaper interviewers, or they were from the FS community but didn't have the temerity to ask the hard questions. I was discontinuing posting in this forum, but was encouraged to comment, and members asked me specific questions in this forum so I responded, I have also constructively commented on a technical problem Flight users have had, and tried to correct a misunderstanding in which a Flight fan was admonished, I have been a peacemaker more than once.

Is it appropriate and allowable to post such discussions in the FS9 or FSX forum when the topic is where do FS devotees stand and when can we expect FSNext? The FS franchise is not dead, it IS Flight, and there have been several discussions about FSNext from the Flight team. In Dec if I recall they said FSNext is not off the table, and in this interview if I recall they said they would consider it in the future, FSNext, not Flight. Wouldn't it be appropriate to discuss FSNext in the FS9 or FSX forum? So far such comments in interviews have only been posted in the Flight forum, so FS fans have to come to the Flight forum for this news. So perhaps, if there is an interview that involves discussion of FSNext's future, is it allowable to post discussions about it in the FS9 and FSX forums? Because there are strict formalities against commenting on FSNext in the Flight forum?

As I said however, I don't want any problems, the past nine months or so, I have been taking close care of my mom who has had to have surgery, and had health complications, along with my car also, I've spent enough to buy a plane. Trying to get through it so I can get it behind me, and prepare for a warmer next Winter, so I can get back to addons and hardware, and start studying flight training again for FAA credentials. I am very tired have lost a lot of sleep in these herculean efforts to try to get far ahead of the curve because I have big challenges ahead of me, warmer climate for my mom for the Winter, better car, flight training, can I find a way to get a plane (?), move my career ahead, then the logistics of new hardware and addons.

I am going back to the other forums, if I don't answer Flight forum questions I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to obey the strict formalities here. I have tried Flight, there are some interesting things about it but it is a game like GTA which has similar admirable technical features to it although I haven't tried it yet. I have specific desires in how I want to fly and Flight won't be the answer. Plus the EULA's.

[alaskancrab]

Not sure where you read anything about a law suit here.

[JSkorna]

Please discuss anything about FSNext in the Outer Marker Forum!

[alaskancrab]

JSkorna: he was talking about the Xbox EULA where it says you can't form a class action lawsuit against the service. Which actually comes from Sony's outages last year. But any EULA says that, they've just expanded to include "class action". And since you'll find the same thing in your browser EULA... :)

[JSkorna]

I can usually follow stuff, but what post # are we talking about?

[fxsttcb]

I can usually follow stuff, but what post # are we talking about?I kinda wondered the same! The only post that contains the term "class action" or "Lawsuit" was his response to you. :rolleyes:
The only other post that includes the word "law" was Angels355 advising Ben to "ask your teachers to teach you something about Law and business".:confused:
As Paxx says, FUD...Don

[alaskancrab]

24,25,50 and I think it may have ultimately started in another thread as well. I read them a couple of days ago but didn't have time to respond. My point is there isn't anything special in the Xbox EULA that should prevent you from enjoying a free game, nor does it take away from any "rights" real or imagined :)

[angels355]

Is it OK for me to comment? I have no intention of suing anyone. I've had a really hard life despite being a real erstwhile scientist and similar in character to Richie Cunningham, also had the strange problem where having been a fashion model in the past much like "Zoolander" (cough!), I can sit there like one night at a cafe minding my own business and three women with their boyfriends were looking at me I didn't even notice. The boyfriends were so steaming mad with insane jealousy, one nice respectable guy stood in front of the nearest one so he wouldn't attack me. Another time, I was a customer of one cashier with a new boyfriend, I was just her customer, he just came up to me and assaulted me out of insane jealousy, never met him before. And then I've been a church goer, many of them were steaming angry because I'm a scientist and they refused to believe it having pigeon holed me. Then there are crazy radicals from the left who have hated me because I was a church goer and had been involved with law enforcement. Threats made to me since HS are like around 1000, I've been a victim of crime so many times some agencies can't stand to talk to me and of course they're busy eating doughnuts so nothing gets done any way, and I've been a witness to crime countless times and nothing gets done. I've had many really scary moments that were life threatening, of course the authorities never cared. And many of them are so unbelievably.....intellectually challenged, that for example one time, having completed 14 or so months of intense work (often 80 hours/week) at my job investigating bank robberies, I departed my biz wearing a black suit and tie and police baseball cap......the police there mistook me for a bank robber and nearly shot me! My supervisor caught that bank robbery suspect six months later. People were angry on my behalf. Just trying to illustrate how hard the real world of law is, and I am just averse to signing away my rights to sue in court, whether I never intend to or not. It's a mad mad world. While being a saint contributing to our safety etc, a group of people robbed me of Learjet money, and I've had no traction getting it back. So I have about three law firms that watch out for me because we live in a really crazy world. That's all, not saying I'm suing anyone. So don't like that XBox EULA. My browser EULA is friendly.

XBox and GTA (Rockstar) have EULAs that say your game play or addons become their property without your consent once you agree to their EULA. Not sure if I care about that with GTA as long as I'm not using XBox. But I am a creative person, I've written a couple of scripts, not sure if I like the 2nd, the 1st I loaned out and a strikingly similar film was made a couple years later. Of course it's probably all coincidence, there are so many similar stories that float around.

More ukulele music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MDQmJL6wI

[richlp]

Do you, by any chance, drink Dos Equis? ; )

Stay thirsty, my friend!

[angels355]

Do you, by any chance, drink Dos Equis? ; )

Stay thirsty, my friend!

Stay thirsty my friends!