Flight - "Hello Muddah Hello Faddah" the game

[jandjfrench]

Hi,

I've been monitoring about a dozen forums and for some strange reason Allan Sherman's lyrics keep growing louder in my mind. Now I wonder why that is.

Jim F.

[FlashMayia]

Here I am at Camp Granada:D

[jandjfrench]

Are you swimming? Are you sailing?

[JSkorna]

If the purpose of this thread does not become clear to us, it will be locked soon.

[azzaro]

I believe this is the verse upon which this thread turns:

"Wait a minute, it stopped hailing,
Guys are swimming, guys are sailing,
Playing baseball, gee that's better,
Muddah Fadduh kindly disregard this letter."

The OP is saying is that perceptions are changing with experience.
Is that the metaphor you were going for here? :)

— Bob

[jandjfrench]

Indeed!

[angels355]

Darwin, survival of the interested. Those that are still interested still post on the Flight forums, and being interested they post more rosie reviews of Flight. Also in the case of fscom, Nels would like those that wish to stick with FSX, FS9, X-Plane, and the real genuine Pilot WIngs, to return to their respective forums and allow those that are interested to post about Flight.

My comments about recent events, Hawaii is beautiful, the crash animation and ambulance are good and amusing, Alaska is a beautiful state, an incredible place to explore. However, I can download both Hawaii and Alaska, plus the Himalayas in FSX or FS9, while still enjoying a real full featured flight simulator, and can explore anywhere in the world with any plane I want. Flight's HI and AK are of interest, but not enough to put up with their limited game format and "Minority Report" marketing. In chemistry a reaction proceeds forward if you exceed the Energy of Activation barrier, it's an energy barrier that has to be overcome to move forward. Flight has not overcome my Energy of Activation barrier so to speak, so for the most part I'm going back to the other forums to focus on real flight simulation. In parting briefly, I'm the customer, and I'm not buying it.

[jandjfrench]

Hi angels355,

My view of your response is that it is a rational one. The only part that struck somewhat of a sour response from me was "I'm going back to the other forums to focus on real flight simulation". I think that flying one of Flight's challenges without the artificial aids and getting Gold is a real accomplishment. I can't think of anything in any version of Flight Simulator were your proficiency was so rigorously scrutinized.

Jim F.

[azzaro]

This has now become a religious argument, therefore undebatable. The horse is dead. Let's stop hitting it. :) — Bob

[alaskancrab]

Hi angels355,

My view of your response is that it is a rational one. The only part that struck somewhat of a sour response from me was "I'm going back to the other forums to focus on real flight simulation". I think that flying one of Flight's challenges without the artificial aids and getting Gold is a real accomplishment. I can't think of anything in any version of Flight Simulator were your proficiency was so rigorously scrutinized.

Jim F.

I do.. I use to grade checkrides.. :) and no most people can barely track an ILS at first. the autopilot everyone seems to master though. My recent thoughts on the sim... if I don't need a new computer MGS can have the $1000 for the rest of the world.

[angels355]

Hi angels355,

My view of your response is that it is a rational one. The only part that struck somewhat of a sour response from me was "I'm going back to the other forums to focus on real flight simulation". I think that flying one of Flight's challenges without the artificial aids and getting Gold is a real accomplishment. I can't think of anything in any version of Flight Simulator were your proficiency was so rigorously scrutinized.

Jim F.

Thanks Jim. It's my goal not to spoil your fun and others, sorry if I sounded sour. The challenges I do are overloading a 747-8F to 1.67 million pounds gross weight, roughly 700,000 over the max gross weight, and even I think about 400,000 over the max gross weight of an Antonov 225, and fly it from KLAX to KMIA to prove it can be done in the simulator, as many have had a hard time flying even lightly loaded 747's. Friend, son in law of Pappy Boyington, recently loaned me a Jeppeson book on airport plates, I intend to read it and use it in FSX and FS9. Regarding "real simulation" that is the crux of the matter that we have been upset about, they literally stripped out the simulation so now Flight Simulator has become literally simply Flight. Flight is just a continuation of the "missions" from FSX, w/o the simulation.

I have done the first two missions, and I did a Flight challenge following the VOR's on Lanai, Maui, and Molokai, but I did it in FS9 in a 757 in an exotic Hawaiian theme repaint in FS9. Going back to my 748F flight to KMIA, the plane was so heavy it had to be flown gingerly on the one hand, but when KMIA insisted that I land ILS, I had to fly the instruments manually for the ILS because the automation was not fast enough for the very heavy load, another FS challenge of my own design. In Fly2K I flew around the world with 1 foot visibility, it was trying but I made it, many times in FS98 I flew around the world in pitch blackness compounded by a failing monitor I didn't realize was failing. Completed in excess of 400 flights around the world, including the Virgin Global Flyer nonstop flight, and the simulated two stop RTW flight in the new 777-200LR when the real 772LR was unveiled.

Any way, Nels has said that if us members want to stay with our old flight simulators to return to those forums and allow Flight users to post here. Perhaps at a later time Flight will appeal to me. I have plenty of buying power, just bought six FSX Gold's, but at this time Flight is not appealing to me. Being strictly a PC gamer believing in ultimate hardware, it is also embarrassing to sign up for an X-Box account. BTW when are they coming out with a new X-Box? Any way I'll keep an eye on Flight and if there is anything of crucial interest then I'll be interested again.

In the Wall Street world where they design products, often times they split up a product and sell them separately, Flight is like the splitting off of the FSX missions. Many of us have given up that MS will ever produce a flight simulator again. I still find FS98 interesting, by extrapolation I should also find FSX still interesting in the year 2022. Hopefully by that time I'll have a real plane.

Have fun, don't let me spoil it.

[alaskancrab]

When ? whenever they figure out 64 bit and true Multithreaded DX... i keep telling you this but you won't listen to reason :)

[angels355]

When ? whenever they figure out 64 bit and true Multithreaded DX... i keep telling you this but you won't listen to reason :)

Probably have a real plane by that time. :rolleyes: Doesn't take that many hubcaps!

[angels355]

Hey alaskancrab, as long as you don't get STEAMED or anything ......:rolleyes: you want to comment on my thread over here? http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?246137-FSX-FS9-Flight-Battlefield-3-physics-engines

[Flyfalcons]

Thanks Jim. It's my goal not to spoil your fun and others, sorry if I sounded sour. The challenges I do are overloading a 747-8F to 1.67 million pounds gross weight, roughly 700,000 over the max gross weight, and even I think about 400,000 over the max gross weight of an Antonov 225, and fly it from KLAX to KMIA to prove it can be done in the simulator, as many have had a hard time flying even lightly loaded 747's.

Just to be clear, your idea of true simulation is to set up something that is completely unrealistic?

[loki]

Being strictly a PC gamer believing in ultimate hardware, it is also embarrassing to sign up for an X-Box account.

Why should it be embarrassing? I think far too many people have the perception that an XBox is a kids toy, when the average age for players is more like 30. How many kids actually have the money to purchase multiple $60 games and DLC for them? Not to mention games like GTA are rated for teens or higher. Microsoft is slowly working through consolidating all of their different user accounts, like Hotmail, .NET Passport, and Xbox Live into one account that a user can share between all of Microsoft's online services.

It is almost guaranteed that consoles and PCs are going to become very similar at some point. Alienware has a new PC that looks very like a console, and there are rumours that Valve is considering a Steam console of some kind.

http://www.slashgear.com/alienwares-x51-puts-games-consoles-on-notice-18209786/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401119,00.asp

[angels355]

Just to be clear, your idea of true simulation is to set up something that is completely unrealistic?

Just to be clear the tradition of a SIMULATOR is to set up completely unrealistic scenarios to stress your skills to the max. Or, to do flight research, you set up flights that have never been done before. Can you tell me how the procedure for exiting and re-entering the atmosphere was determined?

In a real world combat simulator do they use realistic scenarios to test or educate the pilot? Like say one bogey pops up ever six months 300 miles away and never threatens your flight? No, they overstress the pilot in the simulator so that the real world will be a piece of cake.

You think it's easy flying that 1.67 million lb 747, try doing that flight yourself. And if you succeed, sorry no "pilot wings". Try my other challenge, globally one foot of visibility and torrential downpouring rain and heavy winds, and fly around the world. I did it in a King Air B200.

I hope I have been clear. Don't mean to be rude but I'm going back to the other forums. It may take a long time for MS to come up with anything exciting in Flight.

Loki, I'll look into the X-Box account when Flight should offer anything of any real interest, or might consider it if they come out with a modern X-Box with more pc-like gaming.

[loki]

Regarding "real simulation" that is the crux of the matter that we have been upset about, they literally stripped out the simulation so now Flight Simulator has become literally simply Flight.

And the more I fly in Flight the more I think people are getting too caught up in one or two features, especially the aerocaches, and missing the rest of the sim. Yes, I do think it is still a simulator. Why would a game bother with simulating engine mixture controls (try flying the Stearman to 20,000' without setting the mixture properly), or cross-winds, for a couple of examples. Certainly it is a limited simulator compared to FSX, but it is still a sim underneath.

Personally looking back over the flying I've done in the real world in the past couple of years, mostly as a passenger these days unfortunately, the most enjoyable flights that felt closest to actually flying were the small planes and helicopters, not the A380 or other airliners. This is what the current iteration of Flight is going for. Sure, flying an ILS approach with no visibility can feel rewarding. This however, is not the only way to fly.

The most fun I've had in a plane recently was last fall in an Extra 330 outside of Vegas. I really want one of those as my own! In the front seat that I was sitting in, there were two instruments, an altimeter and an airspeed indicator (the pilot in back did have a full panel), which was enough for the flying we did over the desert. Most of the flight was spent looking out of the cockpit, not trying to keep a bunch of gauges and needles lined up properly.

Not trying to change people's minds about Flight as it most definitely does not fit everyone's needs, but I think calling it purely a game is going too far.

[angels355]

Over on one of my FSX threads I learned about the loss of a Marine. I invite you guys to come over to that thread and watch Mitch's (Goatman) memorial tribute video. It is extremely well done in FSX with a formation of Blue Angels, the C-130, and the missing aircraft formation. I'm very sad, he gave his life for our freedom.

The video password is tribute.

FSX, FS9, Flight, Battlefield 3 physics engines

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?246137-FSX-FS9-Flight-Battlefield-3-physics-engines/page2

[Flyfalcons]

Just to be clear the tradition of a SIMULATOR is to set up completely unrealistic scenarios to stress your skills to the max. Or, to do flight research, you set up flights that have never been done before. Can you tell me how the procedure for exiting and re-entering the atmosphere was determined?


LOL, with a couple type ratings (real ones), I understand what a simulator is for. I don't remember any of the lessons involving loading a plane 30% over gross just to see if it can be done. ;) What can be said though, is that in what Flight does model, it does so realistically. Airports look like they should, airplanes fly like they should, and systems operate like they should. If you think MS has no intention of adding more complex or faster aircraft in the future, then maybe you could answer why there are potential awards displayed for breaking the sound barrier, flying higher than FL500, etc?

[angels355]

LOL, with a couple type ratings (real ones), I understand what a simulator is for. I don't remember any of the lessons involving loading a plane 30% over gross just to see if it can be done. ;) What can be said though, is that in what Flight does model, it does so realistically. Airports look like they should, airplanes fly like they should, and systems operate like they should. If you think MS has no intention of adding more complex or faster aircraft in the future, then maybe you could answer why there are potential awards displayed for breaking the sound barrier, flying higher than FL500, etc?

Thanks. I actually did that flight on two occassions, when people on two occasions complained that the new 747 could not be flown even without any added weight at all. So first time I overloaded an A380 (1.3 million lbs?) and completed a long flight, the 2nd time was w/ the 748F loaded to a GW of 1.67 million lbs. I've done really heavy loads with the AN225 also. The thing is, how do you know how accurate the flight model is? Do you want to make it as easy and simple to fly in the simulator just to find out how hard it is in the real plane? If you make it extremely difficult in the simulator, it will be just that much more easy in the real plane. Although the last flight at 1.67 million lbs, was so heavy, I can't imagine it being done, I mean that flight model was barely making it. The 747 pilot who transports the Space Shuttle says it's extremely easy, just an ordinary flight.

I'm hoping to order a full set of flight study materials to start studying for licenses again. By full set, I of course mean I'm completely overdoing it. I have an estimated 17,000 simulated hours but I do still have a lot to learn. Not sure what I'm going to do about RW flight hours, trying to think of something creative, like maybe sell some Corvettes and buy a twin piston plane, then convince the FAA flight test inspector to get into the plane...something like that. Single engines are for wusses! Hope I can use that word on the internet. After college I nearly struck it rich and nearly bought a learjet, had no credentials at all except RW flight time from 7 to 11 years old. But I had stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, and watched and learned from the best, Rodney Dangerfield! Unfortunately had to start over.

Any way, have to reinstall FSX from scratch on my new system, have a PMDG 747x I've been wanting to crank up using the full startup and shutdown procedures. Then have to build another computer w/ i8 processor for all those good addons like Orbx etc.

I'll wait and see if Flight can catch up.

Be sure to see the tribute video listed above.

[alaskancrab]

Actually the problem with and aircraft 1.5x its MAX weight is neither Boeing or the simulator has the performance numbers for that to actually be modelled. So technically what you've done is use an edge cases that would have been ruled out in the first place by the laws of physics.. Second of all it would have never been in the FMC to handle that load, or the flight manual, so even something like N1 and Trim you'd actually be guessing at which people don't just do with 300 million dollar aircraft and 300 people onboard. So it's really not simulations, that's just fantasy flying on the level of PilotWings.

[vonBobo]

airplanes fly like they should

I've read this a couple of times now in reference to Flight, and I'm just not getting the same impression. I feel like Flight is too twitchy. And I still have that detached feeling that I have always had with FS. Instead of feeling the air, I feel like I'm driving a roller coaster.

[angels355]

I've read this a couple of times now in reference to Flight, and I'm just not getting the same impression. I feel like Flight is too twitchy. And I still have that detached feeling that I have always had with FS. Instead of feeling the air, I feel like I'm driving a roller coaster.

Yes, there aren't any good planes for a frame of reference to compare by. And I would think that the Icon would fly in a much less stable way and be much more subject to the winds and gusts. I tried to fly it to the top of the mountain but it was really struggling so gave up then tried out its' crash dynamics, which I thought were actually very good. Any way, let's not forget that Flight was designed to fly with a mouse, so the plane has to be nearly flying itself in enhanced stability to do that.

[angels355]

Actually the problem with and aircraft 1.5x its MAX weight is neither Boeing or the simulator has the performance numbers for that to actually be modelled. So technically what you've done is use an edge cases that would have been ruled out in the first place by the laws of physics.. Second of all it would have never been in the FMC to handle that load, or the flight manual, so even something like N1 and Trim you'd actually be guessing at which people don't just do with 300 million dollar aircraft and 300 people onboard. So it's really not simulations, that's just fantasy flying on the level of PilotWings.

No inflight dinner for you!

[angels355]

These arguments are neither here nor there, what's important is that those of you that enjoy Flight just go ahead and enjoy it. And those of us that want a real flight simulator experience will continue flying FS9 and FSX or X-plane.

[alaskancrab]

Not saying it's impossible but undocumented that's all. :) I think they do overload the aircraft during testing but not for an actual flight.

[angels355]

Not saying it's impossible but undocumented that's all. :) I think they do overload the aircraft during testing but not for an actual flight.

All right! "Garcon!" --snap--snap! "Salmon almondine pour monsieur!"

[alaskancrab]

Sorry I already ate in the the V.I.P. lounge.. thanks anyways!