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benEggleston16
03-01-2012, 01:09 PM
My turn: after flight time 28 minutes, I am not sure what to report. My view is slightly tainted by all the hype/un-hype the game has recieved and I think whatever I write might not be what I truelly feel deep down. Oh well, here goes.

I am enjoying FLIGHT. I know, prepare the firing squad but first let me finish.

I'll start with the engine. The graphics are good, better than FSX even at medium and, from a distance, low. Performance is better too, but then many things are missing.

Aircraft: I only have the Icon and the Stearmann, both are alright, better than default FSX but not a sight on paryware and decent freeware. The resolution of the cockpits is alright, way better than FSX but with the Icon's night lighting, the dials become blurry. My favourite feature of the cockpits is the lighting/selfshadowing, seeing the shadow of the wings moving over the fascia is something new to FS I believe. The flight dynamics are pretty good suprisingly, after looking at the promo videos it looked like they were flying like a DS game but in reality: brilliant. Again, a massive improvement over FSX (default). The aircraft handled suspiciously stable though with the arrow keys: but then, I have just mastered the art of flying with arrow keys in FSX (flying, not landing). A great feature of the FD is the ability to perform spins (I don't know how realistic, I've never flown a plane in real life), I tried mine in a 'job' which caused my passenger to throw up (complete with sound effects). I now have a 100% sick passenger rating (more on the pilot profile later). Next time I'll wait till an aerobatics mission before I try a loop.
So all in all, the aircraft are a darn sight better then FSX but are not exactly FSX payware.

Scenery: In a word, brilliant. Dare I say it: ORBX level (except for ORBX's more detailed parts like their photoscenery areas) for the most part, landclass is perfect, aligning houses with drives and roads, no trees where photoscenery underlay houses are. This I think is FLIGHT's greatest leap forward. A word of warning though, from a distance the scenery is indistinguishable from FSX so if you see a screenshot with an island in the distance looking like a surfacing whale, give them a bit of slack. From close up, the taxiway texture resolution even at low settings is, yes my confidence has grown, ORBX level. You just can't knock it. So realistic. The airports are about FSX payware/excellent freeware (Max Kraus) quality, especially the textures. They lack dynamism though, no AI, planes cars or characters.

Interface: This is where FLIGHT is most 'arcadey'. You must (technically you should, you have a choice, but you won't get far without it) get a Games for Windows Live account which is actually an X-box account but made to sound less teenager-ish for oldies I guess. You get a pilot profile with stats such as, flight time, happy passengers, cargo hauled, highest flight, time spent inverted and all sorts of other useless and pointless yet 'fun' stats. And of course XP points, where you progress through levels to unlock new missions. When I first started FLIGHT, as mentioned by someone before, I was apprehensive because when you click play (the other menu options are GFWL related), you are taken and detained without trail int eh cockpit of the Icon, amde to fly a balloon course. Then you play another mission, taking your instructor to a wedding and your first water alnding for which you recieve a coconut bra (?). Then you are free, to explore the interface which is centred around a map of Hawaii where you can select an airport, mission or Free Flight. When you select an airport, you can select a job from the airport, usuall there are a few though most rely on the Maule Orion. These are three categories: freight, passenger, $100 hamburger (I have only flown the hamburger: I love the stereotype american, 'wow, you got your pilot's licence, now lets get a burger!'). The general game seems to be continous, when you complete a mission, then click free flight, you start where your plane was after the mission. Options include weather (presets only). The map conatins useful unformation about the airports. The last screen is the aerocache screen, right now, there anly four aerocaches, I found one by accident in free flight but you collect aerocaches to earn XP, then you move up a level and unlock more missions. It is a lot more career-based than MSFS. Overall, the interface is nice and slick, adn this continues into your flight where the top of the screen is dominated by and info bar including heading, airspeed etc, a bit like when you used to press shift>z in FS. After my hamburger flight, I opted to shut down with the checklist, which, once you're in the cockpit, highlights in order the switches you need to flick to shut down the aircraft. With the Icon, it's only about three but it's good learning. I don't have many new games (games developed in the past year) apart from take on Helicopters which is very similar in scenery, aircraft and the checklist idea. In fact, they're almost identical superficially except ToH has more intersting areas to fly in. Overall, I've spent more time on the menus than flying today. But I do that in FSX too.

Overall, I'm enjying FLIGHT. For now. I loved the FSX missions at first, collecting postcards and working up my hours. But after about, oh, perhaps, six months tops, interest (in missions)was gone. And that had the whole world. So FLIGHT perhaps doesn't have much of a future in it's current state. SOme might say I said that just to save myself, for traitorously siding with MS (which I didn't, I want to see a real FS12 as much as the next man). But FLIGHT has drawbacks too. I don't want to get started on how much I miss AI and crosswinds, because this review is too long anyway, so instead I'll talk about the drawbacks you can't tell form the screen-grabs. When I knew (before I had it,) FLIGHT had excellent scenery, planes like the Vans and Maule, I thought it would be an excellent GA sim. Some people still think it could be aan airliner sim. Or in fact, it might be good with third party. But no. For all the praise I've heaped on it, it is NOT a sim. Of any kind. And I think that because it's so rigid. That arcadey interface at the top of the screen, IT CANNOT GO AWAY, there is no 'alt' bar, a favourite of mine in the past. The list goes on. It is not the MSFS we know. But we already knew that, so I'll shut up now. You can still shoot me if you want, I've had my say and that was all I wanted.

PS. Yes I know I neglected to mention loads of glaring omissions but we discussed those to death before it was released

PPS. Also, why do people say 'played it for five minutes and hated it'. You probably think me saying that is hypocritical since I've only played for half an hour but I would hate it too if it was all a balloon course.

PPPS. Sorry about all the typos

angels355
03-01-2012, 02:26 PM
I'm still reading, but in case the heater repairman shows up, brrrr, wanted to mention:

Flew the Icon inverted past the yacht, did a couple loops, tried to reach the top of the mountain but it was taking too long too weak of a plane. I longed for my all powerful Klingon battle cruiser with photon torpedo!

benEggleston16
03-01-2012, 02:28 PM
Avsim review posted, written in similar style to mine. Just treat it like a review of any FS addon, don't say THIS IS A LOAD OF SH*T just because the reviewer said there were some good points. Really, everyone should play at least one mission, free flight, challenge and try out all planes before criticising the way the have done, saying 'I played for 5 mins and uninstalled' does not indicate and especially bad product, just a closed-minded user (not prepared to embrace the whole product and has atheir opinion formulated before they even downloaded it)

Think, if you just flew the first FSX mission, would you say it was amazing the way you do now? I think if you approached it in the same mindset as you did FLIGHT, FSX would be in the bottom of your trash can now. The first FSX missions are basically the same, fly a light aircraft, find balloons, learn to take off and land, the only difference with FLIGHT is you had your mind already made up.

(Especially) If you did say 'I flew for 10 mins' and think FLIGHT is so unworthy you won't even read the review, then you are missing out. Obviously you PHYSICALLY CAN'T have seen a fraction the things the reviewer saw in quadraple the time you spent, http://www.avsim.com/pages/0212/Microsoft/Flight.html

angels355
03-01-2012, 03:03 PM
I think I'm going to order Win 7 64, so won't have a system running until then except for linux. Win 8 cons prev installed Win 8 along side the old Win 8, Flight and FSX are still there in the "old windows install" however because of the many security layers Flight and FSX don't work any more. FS9 and I think Combat FLight SIm 3 still work. FS9 looks amazingly good with the sliders turned up.

Just saying, have to wait some time before Flight and FSX are back up and running. Might try the hamburger mission. Keep up the good work. :)

loki
03-01-2012, 03:53 PM
You must (technically you should, you have a choice, but you won't get far without it) get a Games for Windows Live account which is actually an X-box account but made to sound less teenager-ish for oldies I guess.

It isn't isn't just an Xbox account either as a Hotmail account is also a Windows Live account. And they're now changing it to be "Microsoft Account".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_ID

benEggleston16
03-01-2012, 04:05 PM
It isn't isn't just an Xbox account either as a Hotmail account is also a Windows Live account. And they're now changing it to be "Microsoft Account".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_ID

I meant when you search for 'Games for WIndows Live' or sign up through the FLIGHT website, you are directed to the X-box website which confused me at first but then I realised all the accounts you mentioned were the same thing.
Microsoft Account sounds a lot more respectable though.

loki
03-01-2012, 04:11 PM
That is a little confusing, and many here seem to associate the Live accounts with kids playing Xbox, when there is much more to it. Not to mention the average age of console users is much higher than many around here seem to assume (though the average does vary a bit, depending on the article and region).

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/23/new-study-compares-360-ps3-consumers/
http://games.ign.com/articles/119/1199438p1.html

alaskancrab
03-01-2012, 04:35 PM
My accounts been active since they started with ".net passport" The good old days. I don't think they owned the live.com domain back then.

benEggleston16
03-01-2012, 06:10 PM
If we want to discuss LIVE, can we do it in a new thread rather than hijack other's please

jomni
03-01-2012, 07:45 PM
It isn't isn't just an Xbox account either as a Hotmail account is also a Windows Live account. And they're now changing it to be "Microsoft Account".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_ID


Yeah I have a Live account because I had hotmail before and now I use that for my blogging (Windows Live Writer).

torkermax
03-01-2012, 08:09 PM
"Overall, I'm enjying FLIGHT. For now. I loved the FSX missions at first, collecting postcards and working up my hours. But after about, oh, perhaps, six months tops, interest (in missions)was gone."

Thats how it was with me in the FLIGHT beta. Oh, it was kinda fun for a week or mabey week and a half. But after doing missions and chasing coins and aerocaches they all became basically repeating itself.. Became bored with it and longed for the wild blue yonder. Which was only a 200 mi away! :) I had the whole island scenery and arircraft. (DLC). Then it was the same thing all over again in about a week. So, buy new content every couple weeks. That may get costly :) I'm a rambler and never could be held in one place very long.

vonBobo
03-02-2012, 03:15 PM
I think the majority of anti flight folks were simply trying to make a point about the game not being for them, and then explaining those reasons. But I wonder if the criticism often came across as "flight is worthless to everyone", and that it was going to be a big failure?

I was initially very confused about the whole "eat your words" comments. In my mind I was thinking there would be zero FS fans migrating to Flight, so why would there be any crow eating? I think some of the pro-Flight or moderate folks felt like Flight was still going to have redeaming qualities to some demographic out there, and that wasn't being acknowledged or verbalized often enough by the critics.

benEggleston16
03-02-2012, 05:34 PM
" I'm a rambler and never could be held in one place very long.

Ditto. My FSX commercial addon collection may not be big by industry standards but I have a bit of everything, large ORBX land areas, ImagineSim international airports, many aerosoft islands and Lukla, my planes include DC-10s, Airbuses, boeings, spitfires, messerschmitts, cessnas, many other GA and the Accelaration military craft plus hundreds of freeware.

After two days of FLIGHT, I'm nearly bored but the quality tempts me to opt for the whole Hawaiian pack: any reccomendations?

benEggleston16
03-02-2012, 05:42 PM
I think the majority of anti flight folks were simply trying to make a point about the game not being for them, and then explaining those reasons. But I wonder if the criticism often came across as "flight is worthless to everyone", and that it was going to be a big failure?

I was initially very confused about the whole "eat your words" comments. In my mind I was thinking there would be zero FS fans migrating to Flight, so why would there be any crow eating? I think some of the pro-Flight or moderate folks felt like Flight was still going to have redeaming qualities to some demographic out there, and that wasn't being acknowledged or verbalized often enough by the critics.


I'm pretty sure some people wanted to mean FLIGHT is worthless to everyone, speaking out in its defence, I sometimes feel I might be banned from the forums! It was never going to be a failure though.

Most people were going to try FLIGHT, just because it was free, which was clever marketing for MS, since the arcadey-ness of it would have put everyone off paying. But if they could convince everyone the quality made it worth it, after they witnessed the quality themselves enough to get over the childishness (of the interface etc), they could sell the whole world for $50, people would buy it an MS would make the same profits as FSX plus more from the newcomers.
When you mention the critics, do you mean the reviewers of those criticising? FLIGHT is very good as an engine, people just need to get over its 'childishness'

benEggleston16
03-03-2012, 05:43 AM
I wasn't on the forums mich yesterday, getting a thorough assessment of Flight and I've little to add to my initial thoughts. I've flown for about three hours now including one hour in multiplayer, I've unlocked all the challenges except one and about half of the paint schemes. And, as predicted, I'm now getting bored. I've found all but three of the availible aerocaches (in the free base pack, or, interestingly as its referred to within the aerocaches menu, the 'trail' meanwhile outside the sim, everyone insists It's the real thing). I've pretty much done everything I can do in the free pack, I'm level ten and its getting harder qnd harder to move up levels as I complete missions. About 80% though of the missions require the Maule, so without that I dont think I'll make much more progress. So there, three hours is the lifespan of the base pack. I find this an increaskg problem with games that have internet coonnection, it soon becomes hard, nigh impossible to make progress without using real money or credits bought ewith real money. MS are No exception.
As mentioned before though, because I think the quality is acceptable, Im prepared to fork out for exra scenery. Any thoughts?
Lastly, sorry for and ridiculous typos, I am using predictive text.

angels355
03-03-2012, 02:59 PM
I wasn't on the forums mich yesterday, getting a thorough assessment of Flight and I've little to add to my initial thoughts. I've flown for about three hours now including one hour in multiplayer, I've unlocked all the challenges except one and about half of the paint schemes. And, as predicted, I'm now getting bored. I've found all but three of the availible aerocaches (in the free base pack, or, interestingly as its referred to within the aerocaches menu, the 'trail' meanwhile outside the sim, everyone insists It's the real thing). I've pretty much done everything I can do in the free pack, I'm level ten and its getting harder qnd harder to move up levels as I complete missions. About 80% though of the missions require the Maule, so without that I dont think I'll make much more progress. So there, three hours is the lifespan of the base pack. I find this an increaskg problem with games that have internet coonnection, it soon becomes hard, nigh impossible to make progress without using real money or credits bought ewith real money. MS are No exception.
As mentioned before though, because I think the quality is acceptable, Im prepared to fork out for exra scenery. Any thoughts?
Lastly, sorry for and ridiculous typos, I am using predictive text.

Ben, it is entirely up to you. There's something you need to keep in mind, don't bother trying to please any of us, Flight is a game, and if you enjoy playing by all means proceed further. Search your feelings, use the Force, if you really enjoy it, continue flying it. And don't worry about what we think, and don't apologize if you are having fun. Do whatever makes you happy. "And remember...the Force will be with you...always!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wvpdBnfiZo

Flyfalcons
03-03-2012, 08:15 PM
That arcadey interface at the top of the screen, IT CANNOT GO AWAY, there is no 'alt' bar, a favourite of mine in the past. The list goes on. It is not the MSFS we know. But we already knew that, so I'll shut up now. You can still shoot me if you want, I've had my say and that was all I wanted.


Yes it can. Go Options > Gameplay > turn HUD off. Done.

vonBobo
03-06-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm pretty sure some people wanted to mean FLIGHT is worthless to everyone, speaking out in its defence, I sometimes feel I might be banned from the forums! It was never going to be a failure though.

Most people were going to try FLIGHT, just because it was free, which was clever marketing for MS, since the arcadey-ness of it would have put everyone off paying. But if they could convince everyone the quality made it worth it, after they witnessed the quality themselves enough to get over the childishness (of the interface etc), they could sell the whole world for $50, people would buy it an MS would make the same profits as FSX plus more from the newcomers.
When you mention the critics, do you mean the reviewers of those criticising? FLIGHT is very good as an engine, people just need to get over its 'childishness'

to add to my statement, I think the majority of folks who were against Flight were really wanting FS11, and believed their beloved franchise was gone forever. I'm in that crowd, and at this time I don't believe Flight will ever offer me the depth of things I currentl enjoy in FSX.

Then there are folks that simply look at Flight as a new game to experience and don't relate it back to losing the FS legacy.

I think this is the difference in the opinions.

alaskancrab
03-06-2012, 11:54 AM
Who saids it gone.. . you still have Prepar3d.

loki
03-06-2012, 12:18 PM
Prepar3D is not for personal entertainment like FSX is, so is not really an option for many people.

alaskancrab
03-06-2012, 12:58 PM
loki: are you sure what you are doing in FSX is personal entertainment, or is it quasi CBT? I guarentee you from an industry perspective you are doing the latter so there is no issue. I enjoy coding, but that will never make Visual Studio an entertainment product, no matter how many achievements they add to Visual Studio. (and yes they actually have achievements for VS10)

loki
03-06-2012, 01:22 PM
That is irrelevant to the fact that Prepar3D is licensed for commercial use only. If you are a pilot, then it can be used for training.

Edited to add: Those using FSX as a hobby, albeit a very realistic and detailed one, do fall under personal or entertainment use.

angels355
03-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Customer loyalty, we hear about that all the time down the decades. A small shop owner or entrepreneur who works extremely hard to please his customers, sighs with tremendous relief that he has customer loyalty that has helped him to survive economic recessions and hardships. MS has trashed us however along with 27,000 airports. Do we still give a hoot about MS?

There's also the opposite, company loyalty to its' customers, I think there is a colloquial term for it but can't recall right now. However it's what I mentioned above, what a company does to work hard to please and retain its' customers and inspire a loyal following. How many times has a company product been so good that you say to yourself this product saved my bacon?

How do we feel about MS now? They yanked the simulator out of Flight Simulator so literally it has just become Flight. Perhaps some in MS management who tend to enjoy emparting unhappiness to their customers are in some way enjoying our displeasure? And they have PR and doublespeak to deny the downside of losing our business in WIndows and FSNext, and they are so large that they may hardly even notice the difference.

At Microsoft, metaphorically speaking, what happened to the hard working business man who strived to please his customers? Mr. Howard has been somewhat transparent, he's told us what he's doing, and honestly most of us are alienated, and very upset. Several are upset in the extreme to the extent of being worrisome. Myself, I'm defintely OK, updated Linux and got back on the forums to express myself in the hopes of winning back Microsoft's sense of working hard to please their customers. It was not that many years ago that I was repelled by the idea of even trying out Mozilla Firefox, so I was a loyal customer and didn't listen to such temptations. MS policies became so unfriendly and offputting however I found stress relief in switching to Linux across the board except for the computers running Flight SImulator. Except for some film negative scanning that has to done on Windows at this time, I only need Windows for Flight Simulator, and their competitor Battlefield 3, perhaps some other games. For me Windows has become a game platform. One of our members has gotten surprisingly good results with Linux plus X-Plane. One Linux person claims to have gotten FSX running on Linux, but I was not in time to actually see it. I have a Linux Distro working very well now, which says that it has 400 free games associated with it. I'm also going to branch out into driving games.

Rather than inspiring customer loyalty, MS seems to drive away customers. I wouldn't really care, except that I care about FS9, FSX, and continuing to run them, and I care about the real Flight Simulator series, an extremely valuable 3 decade old franchise that has maintained its' protifability for all these decades.

>>Something is wrong with MS.

alaskancrab
03-06-2012, 05:56 PM
Please... you are talking about Electronic Arts. Serious gamers won't touch their products from a mile away outside of Blizzard. And besides Flight already has better 1000x better shader support than a one trick pony "FXAA" in BatttleField 3. So really you haven't played either game have you? And second FXAA is a product of AMD I believe.. not BF3.

angels355
03-06-2012, 06:45 PM
Please... you are talking about Electronic Arts. Serious gamers won't touch their products from a mile away outside of Blizzard. And besides Flight already has better 1000x better shader support than a one trick pony "FXAA" in BatttleField 3. So really you haven't played either game have you? And second FXAA is a product of AMD I believe.. not BF3.

BF3 is state of the art. I have run Flight quite a bit. Liked the scenery and the crash effects. Buttons are all wrong. Missing 27,000 airports and the whole simulator thing. Why was it so miserably difficult to throw in the simulator component? He didn't even want to. Howard seems to be morally opposed to it. Like one guy who was upset about my extremely long IFR flights and asked pointedly why don't you just take a small plane around the neighborhood for fun? 10 to 26 to 68 hours of nonstop IFR IS fun! Everyone knows that! "Have I paid my dues? Yessir! The check is in the mail!" --Kurt Russell "Big Trouble in Little China" I have done many informal flights however, polishing my ILS skills flying by hand, or just cruising around the neighborhood. Did a short fun flight in a 747-8F loaded down to a gross weight of 1.67 million pounds flying from KLAX to KMIA IFR.

Regarding EA, true I know of one tournament level gamer who hates EA, however nevertheless played Battlefield 2142 round the clock. He says they leave bugs uncorrected. But, I've heard nothing but spectacular stuff about BF3. I've been an aviation buff since 4 or 5, why did MS choose to throw out the simulator? I think they just wanted to make a fast buck, and pilots are known for being suckers, working for nothing at regional airliners, perhaps they thought we were so desperate to fly a new game that we'd jump at Flight. HI and AK sound tempting, but I can download and install either plus the Himalayas in FS9 or FSX. This seems like an obvious cheap shot at giving us nothing, charging a lot for it, and saying things like "at this time" to keep our interest for the future. And the requirement to have a Live account (which I have) plus an X-Box account is obnoxious.

Flight is just an extension of the missions in FSX and that is all. Explicitly when can we expect FSNext? Never? Is that how one earns customer loyalty? They could have given us a polished up FSNext and we would have loved it and there still could have been silly "missions" like helicoptering in to a Starbucks for an emergency latte.

When an AK program on flying showed a pilot going into bad weather, he switched to IFR procedues, I thought, I do that all the time routinely. What will Flight users have to look forward to saying? While watching the movie "Animal House" one of the actors wears a bra on his head, the Flight user can say, "Hey! That's just like me I wear a coconut bra on my head all the time while flying around balloons!"

PS: No pun intended!

alaskancrab
03-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Sorry state of the art is taking a game that need a 5ghz processor just to run properly, down to 1.5ghz laptop andd still provide a more compelling experience. ;)

Hate to break it to you... but FSX is not a SIMULATOR, it's a game with a bad physics engine.

torkermax
03-06-2012, 08:31 PM
Well I would venture to guess what one would call FLIGHT if FSX is a game. Happy Clappy fun?

JSkorna
03-06-2012, 08:46 PM
And now you are going to debate game vs. sim. but you are not going to do that here, sorry.