Here's the Deal....

[Ragtopjohnny]

Okay,

We've all heard "rumors" of what flight is to be, even read the Flight so-called "Fact Sheet".

My feelings now on it are this:

It's due out in 11 short days from now. I for one MAY repeat MAY try the game (yes I use game because that's what it seems like now), then draw conclusions from it. I think this forum has gone basically very down hill with everyone tearing at everyone's throat over their opinions on what FLIGHT is to be all about.

Why not we take these 11 days, simmer down a bit, try the game, then post for who has tried it and who hasn't.

John Thuot II

[azzaro]

Awww. No more bloodshed? Party pooper. :mad: — Bob

[loki]

Awww. No more bloodshed? Party pooper. :mad: — Bob

That's just no fun!! ;)

[ricardo_NY1]

Everyone has been expressing their ideas and opinions on this FLIGHT forum......as far as I have seen, no one has been disrespectful in doing that, so why not talk about FLIGHT? I wouldn't come here and say FLIGHT sucks, It's horrible or anything unfair in that fashion, but if I am upset by subject matter that is mostly or certainly factual like the information they have released or the almost certain fact that they will be the only ones able to develop, then why shouldn't I or anyone else say........that simply blows? Which it does! Things have died down a lot since Jan. Kudos to Flightsim for not sinking into a dictatorship as was the case at another place with their FLIGHT forum..........which is funny because according to a recent post, those other places saw this forum as such, which I have never in years witnessed.

[JSkorna]

Yep, what am I? The forum dictator or something like that?

[angels355]

Yep, what am I? The forum dictator or something like that?

I don't know, but you bear a striking resemblance to Donny Osmand!! :D

Any way, in a work environment, on a daily basis it can be really abrasive. So I think it is what you're used to, when someone raises their "voice" here, it seems ordinary to me and I'm trying to listen to the message they are delivering which I think has value. I mean, some of the nastiest most abrasive people tell you very important things. For example, have you seen the tv show "House, MD"? His abrasive personality is actually run of the mill, a large percentage of doctors are exactly that way, and worse. I did run into a Dr who was the most abrasive I've ever witnessed, while at the same time she was not helpful just the opposite, she was destructive. But there was one Dr who despite his atrocious bedside manner saved someone, and he was the only one with brains to have the ability to do so. So, I listen first, see if there is something of value, if not then the person is really a pain in the neck.

[fxsttcb]

Yep, what am I? The forum dictator or something like that?Why? Are you trying? LOL! Dictatorship. I saw a few of those posts. You guys are doing a great job keeping us in check and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Flight does show some promise is all I can say. If MS does offer DLC enhancements that address some real simulation activities, ATC, Tubes, and a series of regions/airports at 'liner capable distances, I'll probably add to it. If it isn't going in that direction, IMO, it will be a hanger queen...Don

[mgh]

I for one MAY repeat MAY try the game...

Why MAY - it's free?

I shall certainly try it and revert to FSX if I don't like it, and will have lost nothing.

[alaskancrab]

That's the thing... at some point you have to except Flight will never be designed for you to just sit there for 5 hours while you cruise your way to the west coast, and still not be upset about it. Otherwise you are still sort of in denial. Dunno where the stage is when you pick up a copy of P3D or X-plane, but we'll all get there eventually.

[n4gix]

That's the thing... at some point you have to except Flight will never be designed for you to just sit there for 5 hours while you cruise your way to the west coast, and still not be upset about it. Otherwise you are still sort of in denial. Dunno where the stage is when you pick up a copy of P3D or X-plane, but we'll all get there eventually.

For goodness' sake... some folks seem to think that FSX is simply going to self-destruct if they even look at Flight... Relax! It'll still be there! ;)

[fxsttcb]

That's the thing... at some point you have to except Flight will never be designed for you to just sit there for 5 hours while you cruise your way to the west coast, and still not be upset about it. Otherwise you are still sort of in denial. Dunno where the stage is when you pick up a copy of P3D or X-plane, but we'll all get there eventually.You keep mentioning P3D. Why would I invest in something, that virtually duplicates what I already have? Bathymetry? A few more performance tweak$? Newer $DK? Even at $10 month it would be hard to justify for those few enhancements. If I was considering a commercial endeavor it would be the way to go, but most of us are not.

I don't have to accept anything from Flight. Nobody is gonna hold a gun to your head. If some of the DLC isn't my cuppa, I'll just pass on those.
And yes, I do enjoy those long duration flights, so if Flight is going to be less than accomodating for that, I'll just fly another sim.
We do have a choice. It is that simple...Don

[alaskancrab]

Sorry where I come from the developers gravitate to newer technologies automatically. You know Simulators that are actually Windows 7 compatible for starters. FSX is the most unstable app I've ever owned, and the darn thing doesn't even use a kernel mode driver.

[Paxx]

Sorry where I come from the developers gravitate to newer technologies automatically. You know Simulators that are actually Windows 7 compatible for starters. FSX is the most unstable app I've ever owned, and the darn thing doesn't even use a kernel mode driver.

You must be doing it wrong. Please see the newcomer forum (http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/forumdisplay.php?51-Newcomer-Services) for tips and tricks on how to get started with flight simulators.

[fxsttcb]

Sorry where I come from the developers gravitate to newer technologies automatically. You know Simulators that are actually Windows 7 compatible for starters.Where I come from, new technologies are relegated to protoypical phases and are fully vetted, workarounds generated, and proven, before being instituted. Of course, when accuracy is of the utmost consideration, and people's lives are at stake, 'tis necessary.

I haven't found any incompatibility with Windows 7 and any of my sims, that can't be handled with a simple workaround. FS98 to FSX, and they are all stable.

Don't hoot on the term "workaround". I'll guarantee that most in depth apps have so many internal "workarounds" it will make your head spin.
I've been at Instrumentation and Control for over 40 years, from AN-AWG-10 Airborne Fire Control, to mm accuracy robotics with 25 foot reaches.
From Passive and Active Restraint development, to Smart Vehicle Collision Avoidance, and have yet to see a perfect, out of the box, app.
None are without SPs and/or workarounds. Aircraft, Robots, Automobiles and Test Equipment, anything that uses a computation is not immune.
Even NASA trains their engineers, and flight crews on the fine art of the workaround. If you are in a high tech field you should be used to it...Don

[alaskancrab]

Yeah we're not in High Tech.. wer're in gaming and Quality control is obviously paramount. Most companies get one shot to make a disc, sure there are bugs, but not on the scale of what was introduced between FS9 and FSX.

Disagree all you want, but it's this quality control that makes games, while NASA destroys half their projects because of their government handouts. And in case you have some nonsensical reply let me remind you John Carmack has won the X-prize from NASA, and he only launches satellites as a hobby.

[avow555]

I certainly will try FLIGHT out when it is available but there is no way I will buy a single update for it.
My money will be spent on the 3rd party developers that have supported the FS community for many years...

[fxsttcb]

...wer're in gaming and Quality control is obviously paramount....I suppose that Vehicular Safety System's QC is less than paramount. eh? Anyhoo that's the implication I got.

I have lots of games and every one contains a glitch or 50. Even the best programmer and intensive QC can't catch them all.
Launch deadlines sometimes preclude fixing even known issues. Just too much involved and not enough time. Thus SPs and published workarounds.
Be it a game, or an active safety or control device, unless it is very simple, it can't be made to perfection. Operationally fantastic? Yes. Perfect? No.


...let me remind you John Carmack has won the X-prize from NASA, and he only launches satellites as a hobby.
I'd bet if John Carmack was here, he could explain, in depth, every fix, and workaround, employed on the path to the X-Prize too.
What was your point with that? Nonsensical?..Don

[alaskancrab]

So what are you arguing here... what is your point? Thats what I mean by nonsensical. What does anything I said originally have to do with NASA since you brought it up? That's why it's nonsensicial because there is no logical progression from what I said that FSX is bug ridden, and your defence that even NASA makes mistakes...

Please connect the dots oh wise one..what does NASA have to do with updated binaries and updated SDKs?

[JSkorna]

Please stay on topic guys.

[Ragtopjohnny]

I agree Jim, that's exactly what I mean about this.....

John Thuot II

[clutchcargo]

I'm sure there will be a huge amount of d/'s on the 29th, we're simmers-we're curious-why not? What I am waiting for is what they will add on next. To me that could give a good indication of their roll out strategy. After the Hawaiian Islands could it be something as small as say, the Grand Canyon? What if they released all of California in one swoop, or better yet, what if they release an entire country or continent? Would that change the way you look at Flight? I'm guessing it will be small, strategic areas of interest.

[fxsttcb]

Software = bugs. Bugs = SPs/workarounds. As in FSX. That is my point. I used NASA, and my professional experience, as examples.
Flight is going to have bugs. No matter how good it has been gone over in Beta, I seriously doubt, upon release, there won't be hardware and other issues.
uiautomationcore anyone? ;)...Don

[alaskancrab]

Great don, but the rocket scientists left NASA along time ago to work for Wall Street...

[JSkorna]

Any more mention of NASA, rocket scientists, Wall Street, or features/bugs of FSX and this one will be locked down tight.

[benEggleston16]

A thread that begins wondering why arguments are occuring ends up nearly closing...
(As if there's an argument)

[fxsttcb]

OK, Back on topic...10 days and counting...10 days to go...240 hours left...Midnight the 29th? 13,970 minutes...838,200 seconds...

[Ragtopjohnny]

LOL!!!!! There we go Don! :) :D

John Thuot II

[eagleworks4u]

:cool:
I don't know, but you bear a striking resemblance to Donny Osmand!! :D

Any way, in a work environment, on a daily basis it can be really abrasive. So I think it is what you're used to, when someone raises their "voice" here, it seems ordinary to me and I'm trying to listen to the message they are delivering which I think has value. I mean, some of the nastiest most abrasive people tell you very important things. For example, have you seen the tv show "House, MD"? His abrasive personality is actually run of the mill, a large percentage of doctors are exactly that way, and worse. I did run into a Dr who was the most abrasive I've ever witnessed, while at the same time she was not helpful just the opposite, she was destructive. But there was one Dr who despite his atrocious bedside manner saved someone, and he was the only one with brains to have the ability to do so. So, I listen first, see if there is something of value, if not then the person is really a pain in the neck.

[angels355]

:cool:

He's some sort of celebrity that's all I know. I think he just hangs out here in between polishing his fleet of private aircraft!! :)

[Bartbear]

Some doubts, some concern and a little bit of hope ..........

http://forum.avsim.net/blog/1/entry-24-the-ms-flight-sim-my-thoughts/

[angels355]

Some doubts, some concern and a little bit of hope ..........

http://forum.avsim.net/blog/1/entry-24-the-ms-flight-sim-my-thoughts/

That could be good news regarding a future flight simulator.

But the article points out the new business model, to try to satisfy the executives regarding financial performance. Freeware developers are shut out, payware developers it sounds like they were offered to go through an acceptance procedure, and their products are only sold through MS, and they have to share the revenue with MS. As we heard about what was offered to PMDG, they would not be allowed to sell their products to anyone else, sounds like effectively cutting off PMDG from us FS9 and FSX users. Fortunately they turned down MS' offer.

Considering that the debates and mud slinging were so intense at AVSIM that they had to shut down the Flight forum, the writer of the article couches his words in very polite terms.

I don't think MS' constraining and restrictive methods encourage sales. The phrase "alienating their customer base" keeps coming up, is their new marketing approach a mistake? Could they have improved financial performance by working harder to cater to their customer base us, by giving us what we want? Could they have improved revenue with more expansion packs with updates for improved performance in FSX? What is wrong with trying harder to cater to us, I think that is a better approach. To me it doesn't seem like a good approach to take away our pale and shovel and kick sand in our face on the proverbial beach of life.

Yesterday I was flying a 747-8F from KLAX to KMIA, it was challenging and relaxing at the same time, a completely different experience than just buzzing around Hawaii. Such simple flying gets boring very quickly. We had the FSX demo island with even more planes than Flight, I don't know about others but it held my interest for about 20 minutes. In my opinion, money was wasted shutting down FS11, they were close to completing it, and they trashed that product. It could have been generating revenue for several years now. Then they spent all this money developing Flight which included stripping away everything that makes a Flight SImulator, alienating their customers in the process. Good thing we are not their target audience, which in itself makes no sense to me. Things are just really mixed up at MS. I hope the executives are happy, they should buy some Flight expansion packs.

Another topic that keeps coming up is X-Plane. More and more simmers are saying they are adding or completely migrating to X-Plane. If MS uses contrarian methods towards us and customers migrate to X-Plane, it could be very hard to get them back. The X-Plane people are friendly, and they continually update X-Plane, they try very hard to please their customers. Doesn't that seem like a better business approach than kicking sand in our faces?

[alaskancrab]

Really I just wrote a scathing review of PMDG :) And thankfully it's on my own forum and won't be moderated.

[mgh]

Really I just wrote a scathing review of PMDG :) And thankfully it's on my own forum and won't be moderated.
Where's your forum?

[Anubis]

More and more simmers are saying they are adding or completely migrating to X-Plane. If MS uses contrarian methods towards us and customers migrate to X-Plane, it could be very hard to get them back. The X-Plane people are friendly, and they continually update X-Plane, they try very hard to please their customers. Doesn't that seem like a better business approach than kicking sand in our faces?


You are right about the "sand in the face" statement, but you forget a simple thing: There may be an handful of people willing to invest several hundreds USD in FSX + scenery add-ons + aircrafts + .. and hundreds of thousands (most likely millions) of people willing to download Flight for free, play with it and maybe buy another aircraft, or another island or whatever.

If you have 1,000,000 customers each buying for just 10 USD (via DLC), you have revenues for 10,000,000 USD, all going to Microsoft.
If you have 10,000 customers each buying for 100 USD, you have revenues for 1,000,000 USD and those revenues are shared betwen Microsoft and 3rd parties: many add-ons are more expensive than the base game, so Microsoft share is rather low.

Flight is simply not aimed to hard-core simmers.

Paolo

[n4gix]

Flight is going to have bugs. No matter how good it has been gone over in Beta, I seriously doubt, upon release, there won't be hardware and other issues.
uiautomationcore anyone? ;)...Don

Well Don, that won't be a problem since dependency on uiautomationcore.dll has been eliminated entirely. The major advantage of Flight is that it is easily "updatable" via simple patch pushes. A problem identified and reported today could concievably fixed within a few days and distributed to everyone the next time they happen to login to LIVE...

...which in itself is a pretty good incentive to login at least once a week or so, eh? :cool:

[Ragtopjohnny]

But why push "Live" Not everyone is into these social network things. I don't like being forced into it, I like what I use and when I am able to use it.

John Thuot II

[loki]

But why push "Live" Not everyone is into these social network things. I don't like being forced into it, I like what I use and when I am able to use it.

I think you need to give it a try first before dismissing it. Microsoft's Live network isn't Facebook or Twitter., and you don't have to interact with anyone else if you don't want to. What it is good for, however, is setting up multi-player games that work, unlike GameSpy in FSX, connecting with your friends to fly with, and downloading or buying add-ons through the Marketplace. And so far, on Windows it is free to use, unlike on the Xbox.

[fxsttcb]

Well Don, that won't be a problem since dependency on uiautomationcore.dll has been eliminated entirely.Ha-Ha! 'twas what comedians term a callback...FSX callback that is...But, ah...em...the 29th...


The major advantage of Flight is that it is easily "updatable" via simple patch pushes. A problem identified and reported today could concievably fixed within a few days and distributed to everyone the next time they happen to login to LIVE...That is my thought, as well. If those folks do turn out to be responsive to the minority that do(will), have issues, they'll earn some of that trust they lost, back.
I'm betting on "a lot more than meets the eye". Hopefully they are gonna alternate DLC between the gaming audience and the dedicated simming folks.
I won't mind being spoon fed DLC, but, it needs to have real value or it will be relegated to the passing fancy column...Don

[vonBobo]

The addon content, and the cost, will be the key factor in Flight's success. For me, tweaking my flying time to exactly where I want to fly and with the exact airplane I want to fly in, is what keeps me involved. I'm flying my mission, my terms. If the Flight market can't offer me that level personalization, I will likely lose interest.

For example: In real life, I'm riding in an MD-80 and 757 in May and wanted to "pre-create" the trip. I have downloaded the planes, liveries, sceneries and afcads for each leg, and even sightseeing missions of my destination. I was even able to download the exact planes and liveries for my destination's domestic carriers, and added their ai flight plans with working callsigns. Total cost to me: $2.99 for the freemium 757 expansion livery. Will I ever be able to duplicate this with Flight? My best optimistic bet says I will get half of that content at 20 times the cost.

Now I more fully realize the implications of not publishing the Flight SDK. Not only is that counter to the business direction MS is taking Flight, but it is also going to undercut the 3rd party devs that will also be financially structered and contractually constrained within the walled garden, so I just don't see it happening.

[Paxx]

Well Don, that won't be a problem since dependency on uiautomationcore.dll has been eliminated entirely. The major advantage of Flight is that it is easily "updatable" via simple patch pushes. A problem identified and reported today could concievably fixed within a few days and distributed to everyone the next time they happen to login to LIVE...

...which in itself is a pretty good incentive to login at least once a week or so, eh? :cool:

These engine advancements, and the others you alluded too in a different post, should have been mentioned by Microsoft when discussing Flight in the PR channels, they could have mitigated disappointment somewhat with the legacy crowd. Wind under the wings.

My own experience with Beta performance-wise proved pretty much uneventful, meaning no problems. That doesn't really say much though because my present FSX install looks and performs similar, albeit a tad bit more involved then one isle of HI. It will be interesting to see how the new version of the engine will perform as/if detailed traditional series DLC becomes available in the Store.

The actual social aspect of Flight Ragtop can be ignored if you choose. The Games For Windows Live yadda yadda is a somewhat implementation of a Steam type service for marketing/obtaining games (store/download), DLC for said games (store), a DRM system of some sort and of course community forums/chatrooms/multi-player hooks as per the game, as well as providing cloud services if applicable. Think "Games for Windows Online" instead of "Live" and it should crystallize for you.

[vonBobo]

I think you need to give it a try first before dismissing it. Microsoft's Live network isn't Facebook or Twitter., and you don't have to interact with anyone else if you don't want to. What it is good for, however, is setting up multi-player games that work, unlike GameSpy in FSX, connecting with your friends to fly with, and downloading or buying add-ons through the Marketplace. And so far, on Windows it is free to use, unlike on the Xbox.

I'm all in for the notion of easy, flawless, one click installations of add-ons! However, that's not necessarily to say it is an actual selling point for me. I would still pay more money for the right addon, even if it was a manual install vs an auto install for a cheaper addon that wasn't exactly what I wanted.

I'm also looking forward to multi players, and dreading it at the same time! :cool:

[loki]

I'm all in for the notion of easy, flawless, one click installations of add-ons! However, that's not necessarily to say it is an actual selling point for me. I would still pay more money for the right addon, even if it was a manual install vs an auto install for a cheaper addon that wasn't exactly what I wanted.

This is probably the biggest area I think they are making a mistake in. There is no technical reason why they couldn't provide an SDK for everyone to use, but still require that all add-ons be distributed through the Marketplace where the revenue is split between themselves and the developer. They could also offer advertising in the Marketplace as well.

We'll just have to wait and see how it works out!

[vonBobo]

MS is probably going to do everything they can to protect the revenue and their valued 3rd party devs. I'm wondering if an SDK would lead to jailbroken Flight and FSX emulators, or at the very least is going to forever be a concern for MS.

I agree about the mistake. The thousands of free downloads available to us all is a big big plus for me, and what is the future of that now? IF Flight gets WoAI, is it still going to be free, or will I want to pay 99 cents for each carrier, or would I want to pay $20 for a 30 carrier package (of course containing only 4 that I need)? I know MS must carry a grudge about that content, degrading it with disregard on their pie charts and during clone conversations around the campus coffee shop; and I would drop onto the floor out of sheer confusion if the Flight Market had that level of free content.

Waaaaating!!!!
I'm started to get excited?! Flight sims may not even be on the top of my list in a couple of years, and I'm set with FSX for a while. At the very least, I've got a new toy to test drive, and it's free even! No brainer. Now I just need to focus on setting up an email for a steam account, probably something scathing like M$$ux$@... that will show em!!!

[fxsttcb]

My own experience with Beta performance-wise proved pretty much uneventful, meaning no problems.I wasn't quite so fortunate...I'll see if it works better on the 29th...Don

[angels355]

I wasn't quite so fortunate...I'll see if it works better on the 29th...Don

Paxx' system is famous for being a monster, and not sure if he has upgraded to a 5 ghz system yet. I'm wondering if I should try for a socket 2011 and i8E. On the other hand I don't have a laptop yet.

Flight seems to compete directly with their own currently produced sim FSX. I hope MS doesn't do anything to make life more difficult for FSX users.

I'm looking forward to the Flight release but just so there's no more speculation (although that was amusing), or worry about others' NDA's and everyone can speak freely. I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see what happens with flight. Flight sounds kind of expensive, so much is missing and they expect you to pay for everything. I have no problem at all with FSX.

[torkermax]

There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true. ~Winston Churchill

[angels355]

There are a terrible lot of lies going about the world, and the worst of it is that half of them are true. ~Winston Churchill

OK now I'm getting paranoid, crank up the Combat Flight Simulator, we have to save the free world again!!

[n4gix]

These engine advancements, and the others you alluded too in a different post, should have been mentioned by Microsoft when discussing Flight in the PR channels, they could have mitigated disappointment somewhat with the legacy crowd. Wind under the wings.


The PR for Flight was a complete mess, which may explain why they have a new PR team assigned. But, the damage has been done as you say, and is indeed wind under the wings. Hopefully they'll be able to dig themselves out of the massive hole that's bee dug. One can hope as at least they've stopped digging! ;)

[fxsttcb]

Paxx' system is famous for being a monster, and not sure if he has upgraded to a 5 ghz system yet.Yep, definately a Butt-Kicker. BUT, mine runs FSX very well considering how old it is. Alluding to FSX uiautomationcore fix will give you an idea of what I was experiencing...Don

[angels355]

Yep, definately a Butt-Kicker. BUT, mine runs FSX very well considering how old it is. Alluding to FSX uiautomationcore fix will give you an idea of what I was experiencing...Don

I understand. I've been getting clean smooth 36 fps locked at 36 fps, until I went to KSAN for the first time. I actually got down to 17 fps. It seemed to clear up however, whew! I have a large NTFS partition on my 0 stata hdd, which also has Linux RC that converted to FInal, it's messed up. Then on 1 sata hdd I have Win 8 dev prev and FSX Gold, dev prev I think is going to expire soon. Have to reinstall Linux, and Win 8 beta when it comes out or Win 7 plus FSX again and the Flight download. I feel like I need a shovel for all this data I have to throw around.

[angels355]

The PR for Flight was a complete mess, which may explain why they have a new PR team assigned. But, the damage has been done as you say, and is indeed wind under the wings. Hopefully they'll be able to dig themselves out of the massive hole that's bee dug. One can hope as at least they've stopped digging! ;)

"I just want the truth!"

"You can't handle the truth!" -- A Few Good Men

[magnetite]

I want to try Flight, but I don't want to fly in Hawaii.

[vonBobo]

I want to try Flight, but I don't want to fly in Hawaii.

Because of the food?

[JSkorna]

I want to try Flight, but I don't want to fly in Hawaii.

Then you won't be using Flight for awhile.

[magnetite]

Yeah I know. If they released North America or the world I would be happy to give it a shot. Unfortunately I guess that's not the way they're going to work it.

[Paxx]

... they have a new PR team assigned. ...

This new PR team needs to get busy. Here we are a week away from release and zero has been posted on the official Flight website since Feb. 6th. I am also seeing little attempt at using conventional advertising channels or any kind of "viral" campaign. While a lack of participation on public forums by anyone officially connected with the project is pretty much par for the course historically with the FS series, apparently this strategy has carried over to the casual gaming forums where Flight news is crickets chirping, way to hit the "new" market guys. My standards of expectation for Microsoft Marketing expertise is rather low, but this campaign for Flight is disappointment on so many new lower levels, I need a new shovel to get there. /sigh

Come'on Joshua, ya want 20,000,000 peeps using the title, you might want to get some sort of word out. The contrived Microsoft monopolies in some areas doesn't negate the fact that some correct marketing direction may help generate interest.



Paxx' system is famous for being a monster, and not sure if he has upgraded to a 5 ghz system yet. ...
Still the same system albeit with a newer GPU. Into the 4th year now, it will probably be replaced this fall. The last few Socket 1155/i5/i7 systems I have built for others have tempted me with building one of my own, but I'll wait a few more months as the present system does what it needs to do rather well.

[angels355]

This new PR team needs to get busy. Here we are a week away from release and zero has been posted on the official Flight website since Feb. 6th. I am also seeing little attempt at using conventional advertising channels or any kind of "viral" campaign. While a lack of participation on public forums by anyone officially connected with the project is pretty much par for the course historically with the FS series, apparently this strategy has carried over to the casual gaming forums where Flight news is crickets chirping, way to hit the "new" market guys. My standards of expectation for Microsoft Marketing expertise is rather low, but this campaign for Flight is disappointment on so many new lower levels, I need a new shovel to get there. /sigh

Come'on Joshua, ya want 20,000,000 peeps using the title, you might want to get some sort of word out. The contrived Microsoft monopolies in some areas doesn't negate the fact that some correct marketing direction may help sales.



Still the same system albeit with a newer GPU. Into the 4th year now, it will probably be replaced this fall. The last few Socket 1155/i5/i7 systems I have built for others have tempted me with building one of my own, but I'll wait a few more months as the present system does what it needs to do rather well.

Socket 2011?

[Paxx]

Not sure yet but probably. That 8 core looks interesting for other stuff I do.

[angels355]

Not sure yet but probably. That 8 core looks interesting for other stuff I do.

Same here. Mad scientist.

To be as brief as possible, this marketing strategy is a radical departure. I am constantly repairing things, computers, my car mostly by the shop. It's amazing how well the old stuff works with a little TLC. Seriously, you have to have a technician mentality to appreciate what I'm saying, you look at something no one likes any more and say to yourself, I can repair that. For example there are cable tv shows on restoring old collectible items, barber chairs, coke machines, etc. I feel that they could have kept the encyclopedic simulator features while upgrading the foundation. And in a more open market way, they could have increased revenue by catering to us in a greater way. They could have released more expansion packs, and their own line of aircraft, scenery, ATC, and weather addons. The Aces were under-utilized. The ironic thing about this is, as much as we gripe most of us love the stuff from MS, and would have bought all of it to have as part of our collection. The Flight Simulator editions are what we have always liked, they are like the stone tablets from the mountain top, but to increase revenue they could have released a series of yellow sticky notes as well.

This is a very wild departure from the standard franchise. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.

[angels355]

PS:

Paxx,

Couldn't they have left the software and upgrade of the encyclopedic Flight Simulator to the Aces keeping that intact, and then put a little more zip in the PR and marketing department? Except for the past year maybe, I have been on endless advertising campaigns on the small scale. It seems to me that marketing and PR were asleep not the Aces.

In my opinion, if this gambit fails, they will revert back to the encyclopedic format because we buy it. In a recent online article MS said they have not ruled out a future Flight Simulator. I certainly don't wish for the failure of Flight, I just don't think this marketing strategy is a good one. I think online business is good, but I think they should cater to their customers more for what they want.

PS: Here is the article I mentioned which has been posted here before: http://forum.avsim.net/blog/1/entry-24-the-ms-flight-sim-my-thoughts/

[Ragtopjohnny]

I don't mean to be a naysayer, but I think Flight is going to Fail miserably. I think we can see the writing on the walls with this one. The graffiti does not look too pleasant.

John Thuot II

[JSkorna]

Wait until you see how the target market reacts before judging things!

[Paxx]

PS:

Paxx,
... and then put a little more zip in the PR and marketing department?..

Possible answers abound! I'm going with the Magic 8 Ball;
● It is certain
● It is decidedly so
● Without a doubt
● Yes – definitely
● You may rely on it
● As I see it, yes
● Most likely
● Outlook good
● Signs point to yes
● Yes

● Reply hazy, try again
● Ask again later
● Better not tell you now
● Cannot predict now
● Concentrate and ask again

● Don't count on it
● My reply is no
● My sources say no
● Outlook not so good
● Very doubtful

... apparently the 8 ball doesn't know either. It must be really-really secret! Secret PR, a new strategy!

[boxcar]

.
Paxx, you crack me up, man! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-016.gif

.

[angels355]

I don't mean to be a naysayer, but I think Flight is going to Fail miserably. I think we can see the writing on the walls with this one. The graffiti does not look too pleasant.

John Thuot II

Your FSX setup is awesome, and I wished we could have gotten our grubby hands on that Starship. But, I sincerely don't think there is anything at all for us to worry about regarding Flight, Flight Simulator, or MS. As another poster said, "Why worry?" Don't get upset by all this. In life there are cantankerous managers, who come in with brash new ways of doing things for the purpose of taking charge of the operation, or upper management can tell a lower manager to do whatever it takes to get things moving including radical action. I'm speaking purely in general terms, for example I'm thinking of a hotel and an athletic club I worked at in the past so not focusing on MS.

Let all this pass by you without getting upset, there's always the yin and yang in life, things will come around again to our liking in one form or another. By then we'll have perfect hindsight and can say either, boy did they screw up, or they did pretty well and made some money, good for them. And I took care of my own flight simulator needs with addons or whatever the case may be.

I'm just saying the worst thing that can happen is that any of us get upset, about anything at all.