No third party addons?

[benEggleston16]

For those who haven't seen it, the final nail in the coffin, the announcement of no third-party addons:
http://flyawaysimulation.com/news/43...osoft-studios/

'There will be no user development kit and hence no user created content'

(a different thread)

I remember reading somewhere, possibly some more forum speculation where someone stated Microsfot are not as naive to alienate their entire fanbase, and they appreciate the complexity, sophistication and fan's comprehension of advanced addons like PMDG, Captain Sim, Level-D and A2A.
Well they were wrong.

I think it was in PC Pilot magazine (UK) where Microsoft said they would use the online features of FLIGHT to alert newcomers and more casual sim users to the huge variety of 3rd party addons.
MS have sent out a contradicting message: what are your thoughts?
FLIGHT is obviously dead without third party addons

[djadlib]

If they do not themselves develop aircraft like the PMDG, CaptainSim, Level-D, iFly etc. and scenery like Aerosoft, FSDreamteam, FlyTampa I'm not interested in this Arcade thing. And they don't give freeware developpers like the NL2000 team and Thomas Ruth, to name just a few of many, the opportunity to make beautiful freeware addons.
Let's just hope the addon devs continu their efforts on FSX looking 'as real as it gets' so we can quickly forget all about this Microsoft Flight.

[benEggleston16]

I am guessing Microsoft themselves won't make any freeware unless perhaps they will give it only to Games for Windows Live users like they did with the Stearman

[tacomasailor]

I wonder if there is any way we (the current FSX and FS9 community) could develop a estimated count of "full time equivalent" (FTE) content developers who are currently working on 3rd party addons for FSX and FS9? It would be interesting to compare that number to the number of full time Flight content developers currently employed by Microsoft.

In particular could we breakdown the totals into scenery, aircraft, airport developers?

How will Microsoft begin to deliver Flight content if they have 50 FTE developers for everything when we know that current 3rd party developers have 10x that many?

Is it possible that Microsoft will go the Apple way and just be the quality control/distribution facility and will work out licensing or profit sharing arrangements with 3rd party content providers?

[marith]

There is an interesting posting http://forum.avsim.net/topic/358874-some-thoughts-on-flight/ by Robert Randazzo of PMDG which explains why it looks like there won't be any 3rd party add-ons.

[QUOTE=tacomasailor;1644218]I wonder if there is any way we (the current FSX and FS2004 community) could develop a estimated count of "full time equivalent" (FTE) content developers who are currently working on 3rd party addons for FSX and FS2004? It would be interesting to compare that number to the number of full time Flight content developers currently employed by Microsoft./QUOTE]

I seem to remember reading recently that Orbx have at least 40 developers (maybe more) working on scenery so relating that to Microsoft that only leaves 10 to work on the aircraft.

Personally I doubt very much that the quality and quantity of aircraft and scenery add-ons from Microsoft will reach anything near what we get now from 3rd party developers for FSX unfortunately.

[benEggleston16]

Interesting thoughts, I too would be interested to know how many people are employed in the flight sim design industry.
A lot of people are lamenting the loss of quality aircraft like PMDG but lets not forget the scenery like ORBX and Aerosoft, photo scenery and the amazing world of freeware like NL2000 and Blue Sky Scenery. MS said they wanted to create high detail areas but their definition of high detail might not sit with mine. Also looking at the beta videos on YouTube, the can't hold a candle to aforementioned developers. And also, FLIGHT was annonced nearly two years ago and they've just created one Hawaiian island in this time: if they do want to create the world on their own, we'll still be here at the turn of the next century!

[loki]

And also, FLIGHT was annonced nearly two years ago and they've just created one Hawaiian island in this time

How do you know that is all they have created? They haven't exactly been giving us a detailed view of what they've been up to for those two years.

[jomni]

MS will sell add-ons for cheap prices and have total control... Developers say it might not be economical as the PMDG post above. It will be like what Apple is doing in the AppStore. Sell stuff for $0.99 and still take a big % of sales. Developers are left with little unless they sell a lot of units. Therefore developers will not spend time making complex things and just simple but market friendly things like Angry Birds.

[FSXJumkie]

How do you know that is all they have created? They haven't exactly been giving us a detailed view of what they've been up to for those two years.

Why hasn't MS shown anything outside Hawaii?

They're Pimp'n O'ahu, but you have to pay for that island..so you can't say "they're just showing the 'initial' release." The "initial" release is the 'Big Island' and we've seen next to nothing of that.

If MS was working on areas outside Hawaii, they'd have shown them by this point

[angels355]

I still can't believe what I'm reading. You can't get any farther removed from the flight simulator community than to close off third party add-ons. Losing PMDG's is not acceptible, I only have one PMDG and I can't find my Vista license to install vista then FSX then the PMDG. I've been waiting through these miserable recessions for years to get the PMDG's.

What is the alternative, it's FSX. If Flight is going to be released as mentioned where no 3rd party add-ons are allowed, what's the point, it might as well be an expansion pack for Call of Duty, speaking of which I think I'll get that.

When has MS FS content ever been adequate, either in scenery or aircraft, or weather, or ATC? I'm not getting upset, I'm just asking, MS is this a joke? Will we need to simply wait until some hypothetical product called something like "Flight Pro" comes out with an SDK available for it? Or will our hobby just focus on FSX indefinitely until Aerosoft comes out with a FLIGHT SIMULATOR? It has happened in recent history, Fly! fans got Fly! II before they got shut down, they flew that for years, then the French came up with Fly Legacy, built from the ground up by enthusiast developers, delivered as a free product to anyone interested. They are a determined group, not even closure of the series stopped them. If Flight is not acceptible, we just continue flying FSX until a better product comes out, and FSX add-ons will just get better and better. I still fly FS9 and FS8 also, FS7 and 6 too. It's unbelievable that they would withhold the Flight SDK, someone tell me it's not true.

One more thing, there was an award winning Oahu for FS9 that I really liked, I have flown over that scenery so many times, I can tell you one Hawaiian island is not enough.

[jomni]

MS clearly made the decision that Flight is not for us. It is for kiddies who want to start flying. Add-ons, especially the free ones can be daunting for beginners to set up. MS'new scheme makes adding stuff easy.
We shouldn't be too hostile just because this is not what we want. At least they will bring in new members to the flight simming hobby to keep it alive. Hopefully these kiddies will grow up and want a deeper simulation.

[angels355]

MS clearly made the decision that Flight is not for us. It is for kiddies who want to start flying. Add-ons, especially the free ones can be daunting for beginners to set up. MS'new scheme makes adding stuff easy.
We shouldn't be too hostile just because this is not what we want. At least they will bring in new members to the flight simming hobby to keep it alive. Hopefully these kiddies will grow up and want a deeper simulation.

Well said. And with that in mind, does MS expect us to support this product with our hard earned money? Many of us have endless hours of flight simulator time, I have roughly 17,000 hours. If MS is presenting us with a child's toy, do they expect serious flight simmers to buy it? It's ironic, we want more than anything to give financial support to FLIGHT SIMULATOR, but they present us with a product that can not be taken seriously.

[rjord]

I have been eagerly waiting for the release of Microsoft Flight since it was first announced. However, now that it is clearly not a flight simulator my eagerness has gone and I will now no longer buy Flight when it comes out.

Sad considering I and many people I know have purchased and upgraded flight simulator from ms with each new version released since 1.0/

So now I stick with FSX which thanks to 3rd party developers like Rex and Orbx has the flight simulator realism I want.

I shake my head at the direction microsoft has taken with Flight and can only ask myself what were they thinking...... but good luck to them if it brings in a new generation of virtual pilots.

Perhaps MS has stopped 3rd party addons because with previous versions MS was blamed for errors that were actually caused by 3rd party bugs.

[benEggleston16]

I don't understand the amount of people saying they will not buy FLIGHT, it is free, you might as well see what the planes and scenery are like even if the missions and atmosphere is childish.

[rjord]

I don't understand the amount of people saying they will not buy FLIGHT, it is free, you might as well see what the planes and scenery are like even if the missions and atmosphere is childish.


My flying time per day is limited and I have been flying virtually since Flight Simulator 1.0 was released in 1982 so I have been flying for 29 years. The only challenge I set myself is to pretend I am an actual pilot and takeoff safely from one airport and safely land at a destination airport. I even fly actual live flight plans which I program into my nav systems with the latest navdata from Navigraph and follow ATC instructions to avoid other aircraft in the area. I have real world weather and great 3rd party addons which have brought FSX alive and it is now as real as it gets . I have customized my own planes and liveries and upgraded the airports to how they actually look in 2011 using Google and airport editors.

I see none of this possible in Microsoft Flight.

I am sure Flight will have a market and will do well with a new generation of younger fans....... but I will stick with FSX now. Sadly I have for the last year been eagerly waiting for Flight so I am very disappointed today.

[benEggleston16]

I too have limited flying time but am more the jump in and firewall the throttles sort of person, however I still look for some realism eg. panels, flight dynamics, scenery, no giant coins floating in the sky etc.
It's not that I don't understand the appeal of flying with a flightplan: I do it sometimes but I don't often have the time.
I don't think FLIGHT has anything on FSX on any front except perhaps graphics and wider market appeal (questionable), but I will still download to see what the planes are like.
I was pretty sure from the first batches of screenshots when not a single airliner was shown, user or AI that this would be something less serious, and now that's confirmed it's almost a relief.

[fxsttcb]

I don't understand the amount of people saying they will not buy FLIGHT, it is free, you might as well see what the planes and scenery are like even if the missions and atmosphere is childish.Oh, I'm gonna download it! No doubt in my military mind! None, zip, nada.
The question is: will the add-ons offered be worth the expense, or do I put that money into my simulators?
If it is gonna cost 3 Grand to populate the planet to anywhere near what FSX, freebies and payware offers, MS better hope the "gamer" audience wants more than the DL.

$3000? Well with 15,772 cities available in FSX at less than 2/10 a cent each and many with multiple airports, when Flight's pricing is released, you do the math...Don

[Paxx]

If it is gonna cost 3 Grand to populate the planet to anywhere near what FSX, freebies and payware offers, MS better hope the "gamer" audience wants more than the DL.
...

Microsoft has you change your cash for something called "Microsoft Points", which is then spendable in the Games for Windows – Live store(s). Despite this fiat carnival monetary mechanism expect stuff to be expensive. I base this on my previous Games for Windows – Live experience with another MS title (http://ageofempiresonline.com/) that was ruined in the name of "What we’re doing now is improving the total experience while building on this legacy", (MSFlight Dec. 08, 2010) (http://www.microsoft.com/games/flight/#news2).

*Note - Meaningless Microsoft Flight marketing speak quoted for clarity (a first!).

Edit - Looks like you can now spend cash directly in a GFW-L store. n/m

[benEggleston16]

I mentioned at the beginning of the thread that Microsoft said their marketplace would be an opportunity for newcomers to experience the variety of addons availible, little did we know at the time they would ALL be from Microsoft unless they were deliberately deceiving us. And of course, we have to buy their expansions if we want to get anything out of this FLIGHT, planes or even anywhere to fly them in.

[mgh]

...Microsoft said their marketplace would be an opportunity for newcomers to experience the variety of addons availible, little did we know at the time they would ALL be from Microsoft unless they were deliberately deceiving us.....

I''ve followed Flight's development and don't recall Microsoft saying anything about add-ons. Can't you give a link?

[benEggleston16]

It was in a microsoft interview in PC Pilot magazine in early 2011

[goetzsch]

Why should i have 3rd party addons developed for MS Flight (which won't be allowed for this basic flight-sim anyway) - since it looks exactly like FSX WITH
Addons (new textures, new planes, new mission scripts).
So i'd rather keep running the FSX with all it's Sim options and possibilities and add 3rd party addons like a detailed "Hawaii" scenery - or mission driven addons
with new airplanes and much more.
It will be exactly the same looking and feeling as MS Flight - except of i still can use detailed ATC - follow detailed flightplans from and to the whole world - change
textures to my own liking and add objects as much and different as i want - fly exact ILS and VFR and much more ...

[angels355]

I''ve followed Flight's development and don't recall Microsoft saying anything about add-ons. Can't you give a link?

This is old news, no SDK, no thrid party freeware or payware. When Flight was in development there was some discussion that pro add-on companies might be licensed to produce add-ons which would be sold through MS.

[ricardo_NY1]

Oh, I'm gonna download it! No doubt in my military mind! None, zip, nada.
The question is: will the add-ons offered be worth the expense, or do I put that money into my simulators?
If it is gonna cost 3 Grand to populate the planet to anywhere near what FSX, freebies and payware offers, MS better hope the "gamer" audience wants more than the DL.

$3000? Well with 15,772 cities available in FSX at less than 2/10 a cent each and many with multiple airports, when Flight's pricing is released, you do the math...Don
I'm kind of tempted to download it since it's free, but I'm kind of dreading running my O&O defrag after uninstalling it! You know how long those defrag programs take! So downloading Flight for me is a matter of allowing it to fragment my drive..........or not! :)

[benEggleston16]

Perhaps MS has stopped 3rd party addons because with previous versions MS was blamed for errors that were actually caused by 3rd party bugs.
Most people think it was just because they couldn't bear to see anyone making more money than they were with their brainchild, or worst of all, NO MONEY (freeware...)