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View Full Version : Fsx fog generation and haze layer



flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 12:45 AM
Guys I've been very picky at the moment about weather in fsx, is anyone using a good solution to fog and/or haze depiction using real wx? I'm not necessarily talking about 3rd party programs or default real wx, but just the ugly haze layer. I haven t seen it in a while but lately any haze creates this thin cloud layer that seems to follow me around and disappears when I climb over say 5000ft. Not sure why lately, maybe it's in the metar but I see a complete flash when crossing it. Below on ground and looking up doesn t feel quite right either. If there is any way to replace this texture can anyone point me in the right direction? If I can remove it or replace with a better looking one, what's the best solution or suggestion with this issue?

CXA001
11-10-2010, 06:24 AM
As far as I know, this can only be done with 3rd party weather generators such as Active Sky or REX.

Paul Golding
11-10-2010, 08:37 AM
I must admit, using real weather always looks dodgy to me.

Creating your own weather does give you the opportunity to deal with fog and haze though. I use 100% cirrus layers together with identical visibility layers i.e. 0 -2000 ft is a 100% layer of cirrus and a visibilty layer at 0 - 2000ft with say 5 miles. You can add further layers after that. Looks OK to me at least........until mountains and hills start poking through of course.

ScatterbrainKid
11-10-2010, 09:23 AM
...I haven t seen it in a while but lately any haze creates this thin cloud layer that seems to follow me around and disappears when I climb over say 5000ft...

If I understand correctly, try checking your Visibility settings for every altitude layer. For example if your Vis is say 20 miles in the 0-5000ft layer, but is 50 miles or Unlimited above 5000ft, things will be clear as a bell above 5000ft, and hazy below it even with no clouds around.

PS- what I'm saying is that strictly speaking Visibility is a separate thing from weather.

mallcott
11-10-2010, 09:26 AM
Yes, I notice that while FSX weather reads the METAR, the interpretation of it into the sim is messed up. The solution is to play with visibility layers above or below cloud layers, create new vis layers and never allow viz beyond 40 miles without clearing all weather. But you have to do it manually.

clydewhiting
11-10-2010, 09:29 AM
I used these settings in FSUIPC and have found the haze awesome.

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?198315-Realistic-horizon-in-FS9-using-the-power-of-FSUIPC

davewave
11-10-2010, 12:48 PM
I've been working on this very issue, the way fsx interprets metars is really hit and miss.

As you say the visibility contained in the metar applies to 5000 feet and then suddenly you have instant visibility. Worse when you have fog, the visibility just appears out of nowhere.

There are a lot of other issues with fsx real wx, missing metars are just left as clear skies as are metars fsx fails to understand. (Which happens quite a bit)

I've managed to have quite a bit of success in overcoming these shorcomings and more.

Here are 3 sets of pics, first with fsx real weather then with my engine.
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/1a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/1b.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/2a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/2b.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/3a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/3b.jpg


The software is going through beta testing at the moment, if you want to try it please send me a pm and I'll get you sorted out.

I expect the software to be finished within a few weeks, it works fine now but I'm still discovering little areas of fsx that sometimes give some very bizare results. For instance, having a cloud layed at 20,000 feet can effect the height of the base visibility layer!


If anyone else wants to have a go PM me or alternatively I'm hosting gamespy sessions over the next few days with these weather mods injected into it which works but is limited to around 300 miles of the host.

flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 05:18 PM
As far as I know, this can only be done with 3rd party weather generators such as Active Sky or REX.

Im using REX OD and still have the issue but i recall it was not this bad something changed somewhere, i really dont remember seeing what looks like low cloud layer of stratus or cirrus looking clouds hovering above me and following me around and it looks ugly when flying through it, its really thin.

flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 05:18 PM
I used these settings in FSUIPC and have found the haze awesome.

http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?198315-Realistic-horizon-in-FS9-using-the-power-of-FSUIPC

Thats for fs9 not fsx, fsuipc for fsx does not offer visibility options.

flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 05:25 PM
To the others with the suggestions, they are all correct visibility is separate and does look better with low level visibility even if once above it you see the change, unfortunately i can make it look good by setting up the layers manually but i personally prefer to jump in a plane and fly real weather right away it already takes me about 30 minutes to setup a flight and my sim with the add ons, so it takes time to get airborne, (airline type flying). Back in the day it took me so long to set up i got fed up and let the sim sit for months.

Ragtopjohnny
11-10-2010, 05:31 PM
I've been working on this very issue, the way fsx interprets metars is really hit and miss.

As you say the visibility contained in the metar applies to 5000 feet and then suddenly you have instant visibility. Worse when you have fog, the visibility just appears out of nowhere.

There are a lot of other issues with fsx real wx, missing metars are just left as clear skies as are metars fsx fails to understand. (Which happens quite a bit)

I've managed to have quite a bit of success in overcoming these shorcomings and more.

Here are 3 sets of pics, first with fsx real weather then with my engine.
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/1a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/1b.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/2a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/2b.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/3a.jpg
http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff447/dave_wave2/FSopen%20Weather/3b.jpg


The software is going through beta testing at the moment, if you want to try it please send me a pm and I'll get you sorted out.

I expect the software to be finished within a few weeks, it works fine now but I'm still discovering little areas of fsx that sometimes give some very bizare results. For instance, having a cloud layed at 20,000 feet can effect the height of the base visibility layer!


If anyone else wants to have a go PM me or alternatively I'm hosting gamespy sessions over the next few days with these weather mods injected into it which works but is limited to around 300 miles of the host.

Very impressed Dave! Was hoping to see shots of your work! :eek: (I'm a true believer of REX, but I'm really impressed there of what you did, great job man! :cool:

John Thuot II
A+/Network+

flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 05:40 PM
TO: DAVEWAVE Great concept, how does it differ from rex wx engine and Active sky in regards to fog haze? Does look good!

davewave
11-10-2010, 06:19 PM
Thanks for the comments.

I have never used REX or ASE so I can't tell you how they differ from each other let alone mine so all I can comment on is what I've included.

I've tried to keep things really simple and concentrate on 3 main areas.

1. Fog appearing/disappearing immeadiatly. Fixed by sticking layer of cloud on top. Fog now visible from miles away. Works OK unless foggy weather station is close to another that doesn't have fog.

2. Missing or rejected Metars causing no weather/clouds in an area. I'm guessing REX/ASE sort this too, bit of an obvious one. Makes a big difference and reduces risk of 1 not working.

3. The visibility layers. Even rendering clouds at max distance, without reducing the visibility you can see where the world ends. I don't like seeing the end of the world so I hid it. Still tweaking this one but results to date are ok.

4. Sticking in some random high clouds. OK I know I said 3 points but this only took 2 minutes to add and makes a big differance.

There's a few other tweeks in there but that's about it.

I've tried to do all of this with a minimum impact on framerates, each of the optins are user selectable.

I'm guessing REX/ASE have a lot more features in their products but these were the issues that bugged me. I do tend to write stuff for me and if other people like it so be it.

As things stand today I'm hoping to get this released within a month, would help if some of you guys id some testing for me :-)

Foxtrot789
11-10-2010, 06:24 PM
Real Enviroment Extreme has been nice to me lately....

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/41fe5383dd.jpg

davewave
11-10-2010, 06:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKurzLMifk

This video is a small example of fsx real weather vs my engine. Watch carefully in the 2nd part and you'll see the fog bank over Jersey appear on the left from a long way of.

flightsimmer747
11-10-2010, 09:54 PM
Does your system work with real weather?

flightsimmer747
11-11-2010, 01:29 AM
Real Enviroment Extreme has been nice to me lately....

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/41fe5383dd.jpg

Can i know what sets your using to get this, as i cant see this anymore since installation of overdrive, also are you using the rex wx engine?

flightsimmer747
11-11-2010, 03:09 AM
ok so i try to find an airport with low visibility or fog and finally found LIML at 0 SM for wednesday evening local eastern time zone, and while default fsx real weather gives me heavy thick fog like 1/16 mile my rex wx engine is supposed to show the same but instead has 10 km or more visibility, what is causing discrepencies? when i clicked wx i saw 1/16 mile but in the sim i didn't see any thick fog. I do have "enable Metar visibility" on so i cant understand why im seeing better than 10 visibilitywhen 1/16 of a mile is the indicated wx fog at the airport? Now i know you may ask why not use fsx default if it gave me what i want, Answer i can't limit the rest of the visibility using real wx, i can see over 50 miles of the and climbing through thick fog just disappears and gives me nothing below and great visibility, i see all the land and see the rough horizon and where as the other user said "sees the unrealistic end of world" with high visibility. We all know there is pollution haze and fog in the real world, anyone shed light please?

bliksimpie
11-11-2010, 03:27 AM
Thats for fs9 not fsx, fsuipc for fsx does not offer visibility options.

That is not true:
the visibility tab is not available at default, but if you look in the manual there is a change that you make in the INI file then the visibility tab is available for FSX version. It is just a NO that need to be chnaged to YES. I think it is something like ownweather indicator in INI file. I have just done that last night for a friend of mine. Read the manual. it is there. if you still do not get this right post back and I will give you the instructions how to do it tonight when I am home.

You do get a few PDF's with Fsuipc. I think the one that say "advanced users" have this setting where you chnage the ini file to make visibility tab avialable for FSUIPC in FSX.

davewave
11-11-2010, 10:18 AM
ok so i try to find an airport with low visibility or fog and finally found LIML at 0 SM for wednesday evening local eastern time zone, and while default fsx real weather gives me heavy thick fog like 1/16 mile my rex wx engine is supposed to show the same but instead has 10 km or more visibility, what is causing discrepencies? when i clicked wx i saw 1/16 mile but in the sim i didn't see any thick fog. I do have "enable Metar visibility" on so i cant understand why im seeing better than 10 visibilitywhen 1/16 of a mile is the indicated wx fog at the airport? Now i know you may ask why not use fsx default if it gave me what i want, Answer i can't limit the rest of the visibility using real wx, i can see over 50 miles of the and climbing through thick fog just disappears and gives me nothing below and great visibility, i see all the land and see the rough horizon and where as the other user said "sees the unrealistic end of world" with high visibility. We all know there is pollution haze and fog in the real world, anyone shed light please?

I'm suprised fsx showed it as it doesn't recognise 0SM 0000M or 0KM and I haven't yet seen fsx intrpret a real metar with these figures correctly. I suspect REX has done the same thing and passed in 0.
Just for info, if I pick up one of these figures I set the visibility to 50meters. In real life I've seen fog get down to 5 meters but if you set that in fsx it comes into the cockpit!

Ragtopjohnny
11-11-2010, 10:51 AM
Is this becoming a commercial product or a Freeware weatner program for the community?

John Thuot II
A+/Network+

davewave
11-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Well it started of as something just for my community but I think it will end up being free for everyone.

I don't think it's in conflict with ASE or REX, it's a very light weigh app that takes the annoying things out of fsx.

My concern in making it freely available is providing the back end links for distributing Metars etc and this may mean I need to make a slow controlled release.

Ragtopjohnny
11-11-2010, 11:24 AM
That's really good of you man.....

I like that.

I'd be willing to try it out too if I have the time around my development on the side for you while we're working on our projects if I can...

I'll wait till it's more near a stable Beta though if you don't mind....:cool:

John Thuot II
A+/Network+

Foxtrot789
11-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I don't know how I have it set off the top of my head, I'd have to take some screen shots when I get home from work.

Also, this is without REX's Overdrive, I've yet to clean out 3+ gigs of space for the upgrade.

Lastly, I don't believe REX's weather engine was 'active' at the time. I usually load the live weather than shut down the WaSYS program because I don't like how often and drastic the weather is changed everytime it updates. It also kills my framerates (down to about 4-5fps) for about 30 seconds while it's loading.

I'm able to recreate this effect by putting a layer of stratus clouds from ground level to somewhere around 3,000 ft and selecting either the 3/8 of 4/8 density setting in the advanced weather area. Visibility is set to maybe 20 miles(?).

Foxtrot789
11-11-2010, 01:34 PM
No reason you shouldn't be able to get results like this fairly easily. I don't use FSUIPC, just standard REX.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.efd0934d9c.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?efd0934d9c.jpg)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.8325185528.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?8325185528.jpg)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.07383d6837.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?07383d6837.jpg)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/th.9db1db212b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?9db1db212b.jpg)