Flight Simulator Easy Installer 2009 V2.0 (Beta)

[Stuartbaker7]

I am looking for people who can possibly help me with the beta of Flight Simulator easy installer utility 2009, basically all that would be requiered is you run the program, use it to install a couple of addons.

You can download the program from

http://www.downloads-4-u.net/files/FSEASYINSTALLER2009V2.exe


Please Leave a message in this thread, with the filename you have tested and if it worked or not.
Regards

Stuart

[opaplano]

Hi Stuart -

I downloaded the Easy Installer as you requested and ran the interface - it looks very good.

However I did not attempt to see if it worked on a downloaded package.

I, along with many other simmers have been bitten "once too often" by auto-installers. They may work just fine but the user is still at the mercy of the person who created the zip file the installer is working with.

Far too often older versions of gauges, or incompatible gauges, older version of various items which go in the modules folder etc. etc. are included in the package and most auto-installers simply do not ask if you want to overwrite an existing file.

While an auto-installer does save some "work" on the part of the user, what have they learned about the proper structure of an aircraft folder or the proper structure of a scenery enhancement? - absolutely nothing.

I feel very strongly that users should unzip (or auto-install) all addons to a temporary folder first and examine the results - read any instructions and check everything out before they manually move the components to their proper locations. Doing that can save many hours of "what happened" experimenting.

I don't mean to throw cold water on your efforts but I really feel that auto-installers - by whatever name - do a disservice to the user, especially someone who is just getting started in FS. They really need to learn how scenery and aircraft are correctly installed.

Just my 2 cents worth. :)

[noell]

Well said, David, and I totally agree.
FS users almost invariably want to install add-ons so making that process easier via an auto installer certainly sounds like a great idea. However, what concerns me it that the use of an auto installer leaves the end user not knowing exactly where those files went. Many times in forums such as this we see postings something like this - "...recently performance in FS is not what it was....." Often the problem can be traced back to the point when an add-on was installed and simply removing that add-on restores performance. Knowing where files within FS are placed is immensely helpful when trying to sort out such a problem. Like David, I believe the use of an auto installer may hinder the FS newcomer from really getting to know his/her way around the files and folders within FS. Gaining that knowledge is helped immensely by manually installing your add-ons and it only involves basic computer skills after all. With many, many flight simming years behind me, I have to say, I've only been bitten by auto-installed add-ons a few times. It happened often enough, though, to make me establish a couple of personal rules for installing add-ons - (1) Always unzip first to have a look at the files. Only if everything looks OK will I then move the files manually to the correct folders and, (2), Only use add-ons that auto-install (ie via an ".exe" file) if the installer allows me to install to a dummy folder so I can then move the files manually into FS.

Sorry if I'm putting a damper on your "Easy Installer" project.
Just adding my 2 cents worth.

[Stuartbaker7]

i can see your point of views, however problems like this can be easilly solved with the auto installer as there is the easy uninstaller wich will come with the final release of the product this shows you all the addons that have been installed with the auto installer in date order along with the ability to simply remove the addon without breaking any other addons (E.G 2 aircraft may use the same global gauge, 2 parts of scenery may use the same texture file)


Regards

Stuart

[greggerm]

(With much respect, why does this item warrant a sticky-post at the top of the forum?)

[sclincoln]

I think this program might be a really nice tool for newbies who don't know their way around the FS file structure. Sure, it's a good idea to figure out how all that works, that's true about lots of things. But that's an investment in time, that many newbies might be too intimidated to make. Saying that this tool shouldn't be developed to force people to learn the file structure is like saying that nobody should be allowed to buy prebuilt systems from DELL to force them how to build their own computers. Certainly the knowledge gained from builiding your own computer is valuable and it opens up a lot more options and control of the process. However, not everybody wants to spend the time learning about all that right away, and it's a bit intimidating to many.

Most people start out buying a prebuilt system. Then, trying to squeeze some extra power out of FS, they learn a bit more about the hardware and settings. The next system they buy, they are more particular about the parts included. Then finally, they may decide to build their own. It's a step-by-step process. I can see the same use for this program. For casual users or beginners, this could serve a useful purpose. If it streamlines the process, and does a good job, it could open up a lot of new freeware options for them. Eventually, they might find an add-on that they really want to try that doesn't work with this program. Then, they would be motivated to learn the file structure for themselves.

[opaplano]

Agreed - but the weak link in the chain is still the package which the auto-installer works with.

If it is flawed - as too many are - then the "newbie" (or anyone who has not learned how things are properly organized in FS) is left with a potential mess.

Auto installers usually work fine - it is the product they work with which is suspect.

[dc4bs]

I don't know if you have ever played it, but someone came up with a package installer for "Oblivion" (a Bethesda Softworks game).

It's called the "Oblivion Mod Manager" and uses files called *.omod

An omod file is a special form of a 7-zip file.

The manager can take a given file structure (think an aircraft folder tree along with some extra gauges that go in the generic gauge directory and a couple special effects that go in the effects dir, etc...) and create a .omod file from it. It can even convert a properly formated .zip archive directly into an omod.

Maybe call the archives .fmod or .fxpk (FSX Pkg) or something like that.

The manager can install each package, warns of packages that may interfere with each others files, and can uninstall each change (saves backup files if a mod would otherwise replace an existing file) with the click of the mouse.

Many developers post their Oblivion add-ons in both the omod format as well as regular zip archives for those who don't use OMM or wish to make their own omod file perhaps combining multiple mods into their own custom one...

What you are working on creating for FSX sounds a lot like what OMM already does for Oblivion.

Check out http://timeslip.chorrol.com/obmm.html

Take a look and see if the developer of OMM would be willing to give you some tips/ideas on developing your manager. Maybe a collaboration if he'd be willing to share/donate some of his code to your project? It's a free application so as long as you are not charging for yours, he may be willing. What it sounds like you are building would be a quite simplified version of OMM with some directory path changes and things.

I use OMM for _EVERY_ change I make to Oblivion. I have converted every single mod I have downloaded into an omod and use OMM to manage all of them (over a hundred omods at this point).

I would LOVE to be able to do the same for FSX... ;)


-dc4bs

[Raptor22]

Hi everyone,
I was surfing the net last night and came across a free FSX Deluxe
demo. I haven't tried it yet. If anyone's interested just Google Cnet game
downloads and scroll down the page. It's 798MB, I would use this instead
of the game disc. The demo loaded pretty fast. This would be good for
people like me who can't afford it, or want to try it before buying.

[noell]

I was puzzled from the outset as to why this item even qualified as a sticky (maybe I'm wrong but aren't stickies for forum notices, rules, guides etc. that will inform/benefit all members?). Its now four months later with no further comments for almost three months and not even a comment or a follow-up from the author. Strangest sticky I've ever seen on any forum!

[napamule2]

3 Months? Try 3 years! It HAD to be said. Developer either don't know how to set up files that when ziped will correctly install files as per DIRECTORY TREE (ie: paths). Other 'clever' Developers will intentionally set up exe to overwrite (good) files with their own 'version' (which is NOT always the BEST thing for the simmer). No two Developers use the same method for zip or exe file paths. Therein lies the problem-lack of education or just plain sloppy and lazy work. AND THEY REFUSE TO CONFORM OR CHANGE. That's the 'crime'. Then he exe types (maulers) will also set up entry in 'Start\Programs' menu. Why? This is WRONG, RUDE, CRUDE, and an AFFRONT (slap in the face). Stupid is what that is.

Installer? How about 'mauler'. Don't trust ANYONE when it comes to installing files. Do it like Opa says-extract or install to a Temp folder (I call mine 'FSX Temp for Installs') and then manually 'drag and drop' then copy or save the files to where the readme SAYS they belong (even if the path is (usually will be) all wrong). Only way.
Chuck B
Napamule

PS: Here is good (bad) example that even scenery install doing damage:
Name: usnvt.zip Size: 86,225,860 Date: 09-26-2009 (Downloads: 463)
FSX Scenery--USNVT Pack. Pensacola Navy Training scenery, including Pensacola Naval Air Station (KNPA) and Whiting Field Air Station North (KNSE), Florida (FL) plus the carrier USS Eisenhower offshore. Package by Karl Meindl.

Installation:
*************
Place the "Addon Scenery" Folder into your FSX Main Folder and replace if asked! Then go to your Scenery Library and activate the "USNVT" Scenery manually!
Restart FSX. Have fun with it... Karl Meindl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, if you do as instructed, you will wipe out everything in 'AddOn Scenery' (the whole folder will be overwritten-wiped out) and you will wind up with only this 'Developer' (?) scenery files. IE: All the scenery you had installed will be GONE. Don't believe me. Download it and install as per installation instruction. Ha! Dangerous stuff.

[dc4bs]

Eh...

To each, his own.

I'm with you on installing stuff into FS*. It's really not that hard to do.

It's the uninstalling of stuff that gets tricky. If you want to remove something and it dropped custom gauges or whatever somewhere outside the individual aircraft folder, most people end up with orphan files cluttering up the disk that could be removed and would be by such a package manager.

Based on my experience with Oblivion, I KNOW this can be done properly. The OMM has an inbuilt scripting language (a reasonably straightforward one to use) that allows the package installer to edit .cfg and .ini files, etc... When you do this, it will ALWAYS ask the user to grant permission before doing any edits when installing any .omod package. The permission part is hard coded in OMM, not part of the scripting language so you can't get around it. The user is always made aware of what files will be edited.

If you uninstall an .omod, any file edits are undone and all unneeded files are removed and replaced with the originals as required.

Since we are all working within the file/folder structure that MS gave us, it should not be all that hard for a good programmer to build a system that could manage add-ons for FSX. I'm sure I could probably hack together something that would work but I'm a Unix/Solaris scripter/programmer. I fumble around in windows, pissed that I can't use grep and many other super useful things like that in a standard DOS shell...

The only part I'm totaly lost on would be automating scenery installs. But as there are installers for most large scenery add-ons, I'm sure it could be incorporated correctly by a programmer who understood how it's done for FS better than I do.

While most computer savvy people like you and I have little to no trouble unpacking archives and dropping the parts where they need to go, there are a lot of users who would find FSX much less frustrating if they could simply download a file to a specific directory, start an FS package management application, click the mouse a few times and be sure that all their new add-ons parts made it into the right folders on the very first try.

I'm sure the ratio of "Hey! this is a great new addon!" vs. "HELP! How do I get this addon to work?" posts would swing in a favorable direction at every FS forum if such a thing existed and worked well. :)

-dc4bs

[jring2]

I was puzzled from the outset as to why this item even qualified as a sticky (maybe I'm wrong but aren't stickies for forum notices, rules, guides etc. that will inform/benefit all members?). Its now four months later with no further comments for almost three months and not even a comment or a follow-up from the author. Strangest sticky I've ever seen on any forum!


(With much respect, why does this item warrant a sticky-post at the top of the forum?)

Would someone please answer these? I am dying of curiosity.:)

[noell]

Well I'm thinking we may all die of old age before we get an answer.
When I last asked about why this is a sticky it was October 2009.
Another five months have gone by and its still a sticky!
Ya think maybe its joke and we just don't get it?

[drobson]

Well I'm thinking we may all die of old age before we get an answer.
When I last asked about why this is a sticky it was October 2009.
Another five months have gone by and its still a sticky!
Ya think maybe its joke and we just don't get it?

If I knew the answer, I'd say why. But, I simply do not know.

Darrell

[n4gix]

Installation:
*************
Place the "Addon Scenery" Folder into your FSX Main Folder and replace if asked! Then go to your Scenery Library and activate the "USNVT" Scenery manually!
Restart FSX. Have fun with it... Karl Meindl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, if you do as instructed, you will wipe out everything in 'AddOn Scenery' (the whole folder will be overwritten-wiped out) and you will wind up with only this 'Developer' (?) scenery files. IE: All the scenery you had installed will be GONE. Don't believe me. Download it and install as per installation instruction. Ha! Dangerous stuff.

Now that is incorrect information. Windows will -by default- only add to what's already in a folder or sub-folder. Windows will never completely replace an existing folder's contents... ;)

[noell]

Darrell - As a SuperModerator I assume you must be able to sticky and un-sticky. As for the "Easy Installer" post stickied at the top of this forum, it really doesn't matter to me if it is there or not but I am curious about why it is there. I just don't see anything in it that's important enough for it to be a sticky. Even the OP hasn't made a comment since way back in June of 2009! Far more important I think is the other sticky tiltled "Help us help you - FSX problems". Could this also be made a sticky on the "PC Hardware, Video And Audio Help" forum? We are constantly getting questions posted over there with little or no info from the poster regarding his/her hardware, software environment etc. Having the "Help us help you - FSX problems" also stickied there would be most helpful. Thanks.