Approaches (Perfect Flight) USA

[Gwhaarmann]

I really enjoy this product however I am confused in one area. How does one know how far you are from a airport. I generally fly 737. Any help would be appreciated.

George KPHX

[NikeHerk67]

I really enjoy this product however I am confused in one area. How does one know how far you are from a airport. I generally fly 737. Any help would be appreciated.

George KPHX

Hi George,

For starters, at your home airport KPHX, tune VOR/DME PXR into the NAV2 frequency (STBY) 115.60 then to switch it to ACTV. The distance will show up on the RMI as nm (nautical miles). The range of PXR is about 195nm.

There are probably 10 or more different ways to determine the distance to an airport using NAVAIDS
Such as......
VORTAC
VOR/DME
ILS/DME
Using the GPS zoom will get you in the ballpark.
Using a Flight plan and GPS FLP
ATC request when getting close
You can even determine the distance to the AP using the ADF and NDB once you learn navigation.
The sextant as an add-on
Learning to read maps and charts

There are probably other methods missed some here as well.

The more you learn about navigation, instrument flying, and the capabilities of the FS as related to real world flying, the more you'll enjoy the hobby.

An excellent site is for learning navigation is
http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm by Charles Woods.

Like anything else, the more effort you put into learning, the more enjoyment you'll get out of it. :)

[ReggieF5421]

Learning to read maps and charts

About the worst thing I've found with FS is that it makes it very easy to fly and not know a danged thing about where you are flying.

Real pilots have to understand and develop the ability to know where on the map/ world their aircraft is located.

I do on-line around the world flights with people every year, and am amazed each year by some people not even knowing which country were are flying over.

Questions like - is the airport close to the ocean when flying in the islands of the South Pacific, or I didn't know there were mountains near the airport when flying in Switzerland, etc..

[NikeHerk67]

About the worst thing I've found with FS is that it makes it very easy to fly and not know a danged thing about where you are flying.

Real pilots have to understand and develop the ability to know where on the map/ world their aircraft is located.

I do on-line around the world flights with people every year, and am amazed each year by some people not even knowing which country were are flying over.

Questions like - is the airport close to the ocean when flying in the islands of the South Pacific, or I didn't know there were mountains near the airport when flying in Switzerland, etc..

I can't imagine flying and not knowing where I am now. I flew combat simulators for years and didn't really know how to navigate when flying sorties. They didn't have navigational aids and when I discovered FS and navigation I've been hooked ever since.

I think it would be great if the FS scenery changed when you changed the time and date. For instance, if you went back to 1920's you would have no navaids at all, just maps and charts to rely on. Then if you went to the 1930's you might have only beacons, to the 1940's you may only have RR (radio ranging), then to the 1950s with only NDB etc, etc. :)

[skylab]

There aren't any Range Stations in FS (that I know of) but you can turn off all the VHF stuff and DR to all the NDBs if you want to.

[NikeHerk67]

There aren't any Range Stations in FS (that I know of) but you can turn off all the VHF stuff and DR to all the NDBs if you want to.

You have a very good point skylab. You can indeed turn off the various levels on the MSFS maps, but the VHF and HF frequencies still exist and will show up on the instruments.

I do have the RR Stations software scenery add-on. Also, by using FS Navigator, I can plot one angle at a time. It would be nice to plot using the triangulation method with NDBs without printing out the maps on paper. Unfortunately, FS navigator is no longer available as an add-on for FS9 if you dont already have it and can't be used with FSX at all. I don't believe you can add the RR scenery package to FSX either.

I was just thinking that if MSFS would build all these capibilies into the stock package it would make it much more authentic. I know I'd be willing to pay double or triple the amount for an out-of-the-box-package like that from MSFS. It's what they could truely call the "Professional Version". :) It would be like the MS Office Professional Edition of FS.

[skylab]

.....but the VHF and HF frequencies still exist and will show up on the instruments.

Not sure, but I think you gotta TUNE the radios to get the freqs to show up. Just tune 'em off freq.:D

[ReggieF5421]

We've flown several 'races' with the folks over at SOH where use of VOR, ILS and GPS were not allowed. We do not allow people to use the map function or FSNav for aircraft position checks.

We've flown the MacRobertson Race with just NDB and DR. Had one guy land at Paya Lebar (WSAP) rather than Seletar (WSSL) because he did not check his map to familarize himself with the destination area before takeoff.

We also flew an event around South America last year. Flying 1,300 nm across the Amazon in the Mitsubishi Betty with pretty much only DR and trying to recognize the rivers was interesting.

We require period specific aircraft and the only autopilots allowed are those from that time - the DC-3 and Vega Sperry autopilots from FS2004 normally. We have found the rivers in FS2004 and FSX to be pretty good for navigation with Google Earth running on another computer and comparing lakes and rivers and coast lines, you can come pretty close.

Though when we hit fog it gets rough, like going into Allahabad (VIAL) or Jodhpur (VIJO). I made five approached to Jodhpur before I got lined up enough to land in Dave Garwood's Dragon Rapide. Thankfully, I knew from my pre-flight planning where the NDB was located in relation to the runway, and how high the buildings around the runway were.

Makes for a great, different way of flying.

[NikeHerk67]

Not sure, but I think you gotta TUNE the radios to get the freqs to show up. Just tune 'em off freq.:D

:confused: I don't understand? I hope you're just having fun! :)

You're the one who said you could turn all that stuff off, I didn't.
I'd say that could be very confusing to a newbie.

When I went to Radio and RADAR School, turning the transmitter OFF and TUNING the reciever away from the freq meant two different things. When I went to AutoCAD School, turning layers off just meant you couldn't see them in that view, much like the map layers in MSFS. They're still there; they're just not cluttering up the map.

Anyway, I was only trying to help answer Gwhaarmann's question here.

[NikeHerk67]

We've flown several 'races' with the folks over at SOH where use of VOR, ILS and GPS were not allowed. We do not allow people to use the map function or FSNav for aircraft position checks.

We've flown the MacRobertson Race with just NDB and DR. Had one guy land at Paya Lebar (WSAP) rather than Seletar (WSSL) because he did not check his map to familarize himself with the destination area before takeoff.

We also flew an event around South America last year. Flying 1,300 nm across the Amazon in the Mitsubishi Betty with pretty much only DR and trying to recognize the rivers was interesting.

We require period specific aircraft and the only autopilots allowed are those from that time - the DC-3 and Vega Sperry autopilots from FS2004 normally. We have found the rivers in FS2004 and FSX to be pretty good for navigation with Google Earth running on another computer and comparing lakes and rivers and coast lines, you can come pretty close.

Though when we hit fog it gets rough, like going into Allahabad (VIAL) or Jodhpur (VIJO). I made five approached to Jodhpur before I got lined up enough to land in Dave Garwood's Dragon Rapide. Thankfully, I knew from my pre-flight planning where the NDB was located in relation to the runway, and how high the buildings around the runway were.

Makes for a great, different way of flying.

Now that sounds like fun. I've flown around the world using NDB only that were well spaced(no closer than 200nm) which requires DR, map reading etc. I've also flown around the world using the sextant. I've been spending a lot of time lately flying to old routes like Frontier and Alaska Airlines used in the early 40's in DC-3's equipped for flying RR (radio range).
Navigation, using the modern navaids gets pretty boring at times and flying seat of the pants is refreshing. Landing in fog, and at night at unlit APs still brings sweat to the palms and forehead, even when it's only flying FS. :)

[skylab]

I hope you're just having fun!

That's what it's all about, ay?!

What I meant is, just do not tune the radios to anything, or tune them off freq. Naturally the freqs exist in the sim, but just don't use them. I know you were trying to help that person. I was just commenting on your post about "going back in time" when there weren't any VHF type Nav aids. You know.....Dead Reckon.

[NikeHerk67]

That's what it's all about, ay?!

What I meant is, just do not tune the radios to anything, or tune them off freq. Naturally the freqs exist in the sim, but just don't use them. I know you were trying to help that person. I was just commenting on your post about "going back in time" when there weren't any VHF type Nav aids. You know.....Dead Reckon.

skylab,

Good to see you here as always. I've learned a multitude of things from you. I thought that was where you were coming from. :)
I agree, when FS isn't fun anymore then it's time to quit.
I can't imagine that though. There are just too many things I have yet to learn, do, and experience, and there just isn't enough time. I do tend to jump from one interest to another and back again. I like to revert back to flying the vintage aircraft and DR flying, as I know you do with the Connie.

You're right about tuning the radios off freq. and not using the modern facilities that MSFS provides us even in the vintage aircraft. I can even appreciate the fact that they put a GPS in the Sopwith Camel. We do have the choice whether to use them or not.

There are a couple touches that MS could offer that would make it more interesting IMHO.
For instance, just to name a couple
1. When bringing up the MAP view, allow me to turn OFF my aircraft symbol. When flying using DR I want access to the map without being forced to see where I am.
2. Perhaps allow us to plot (draw) lines on the map using the ADF readings. As it's set up now the aircraft is always in the center of the map. Give us a choice of map following or not.

Sure I know I can print out the maps, but most of us only have an 8 1/2 x 11 printing capabilities that only allows limited use.

The emphasis today is to be green, which means using less paper as well. Not that I hug trees or anything like that, but it just makes sense that some basic changes like these could offer us more flexibility and authenticity without plotting on paper.

I think some changes like these would be easy to add to the FS versions in the future.

They may even exists in an add-on that I don't have....I'm not sure. I like and use FS Navigator, but it's not availble for newcomers anymore. I'm just glad I paid for it when I had the chance.

It's just IMHO though. :)

[skylab]

I think the only way to achieve what I think you're looking for is to have better scenery so when you look out the window, you can figure out where you are. There are, however, many areas in the US where that can be done now with the limited default scenery. I can cover just about all of Wisconsin, Northern Illinois, and Michigan without a map or radio and find my way around just fine. I even DR right into O'Hare without calling the Tower !! :D