Letter of the law or spirit of the law

[InsyleM]

Wich is more important, the letter or spirit of aviation law?

We learned in School,
that an aircraft's annual inspection is due, on the last day of the month, at midnight.
How strictly enforced is that?
I see two ways this could be applied, both of wich seem correct.
If your annual is due in July, and you get up in the morning on July 31st at 8am, is your annual already 8 hours over due? Or do you have 16 hours left to fly it to get it done?

I also noticed that through a wording overlook,
the FAR 43, refering to the requirment for washing an aircraft prior to inspection, uses the word "He" This by letter of the law says that only a male can wash and depanel an airplane in preperation for inspection.

I figured this could make for some interesting discussions...
Supose your at 9000'? Flying at 250Kias... with a 20 knot tailwind?
or 270kias with a 30 knot headwind?
Even with the same wind 250kias @ 9000' is diffrent groundspeed then 250kias @ 1000'
So how do they know if you were speeding or not? The transponder only reports altitude..

[tigisfat]

There is only one way that it may be applied. It is due by midnight on the last day of the month, meaning 23:59 and 59 seconds is the last second. On the first second of the first day of the next month, you are overdue.

It's very strictly enforced if you're caught. If you don't have a current annual, you can't fly the aircraft. If you do, or you own it and allow it to be flown, you are hugely liable. On the other hand, there's nothing that says you HAVE to do an annual. If you want to park the aircraft and not accomplish the annual then you're still golden!!

[jwenting]

The letter of the law is the only thing that can be enforced.
If you don't, you're on a very slippery slope and soon every LEO and judge are going to give their own interpretation on things and punishing people for violating the spirit of the law while not breaking the actual law itself, and letting others go who are guilty as hell but "didn't mean to do it".

[NikeHerk67]

Wich is more important, the letter or spirit of aviation law?

We learned in School,
that an aircraft's annual inspection is due, on the last day of the month, at midnight.
How strictly enforced is that?
I see two ways this could be applied, both of wich seem correct.
If your annual is due in July, and you get up in the morning on July 31st at 8am, is your annual already 8 hours over due? Or do you have 16 hours left to fly it to get it done?

[Quote=] I also noticed that through a wording overlook,
the FAR 43, refering to the requirment for washing an aircraft prior to inspection, uses the word "He" This by letter of the law says that only a male can wash and depanel an airplane in preperation for inspection.

In proper English the word he, for centuries, meant (mankind) and was used to refer to both genders not only in the (boy not girl) definition. It's only been in recent history when the society decided that it wasn't politically correct. If you read literature written for the past 6000 years and up until about 30 years ago, don't be surprised if you see he being used for both genders. I'm not surprised you weren't taught that in our modern day schools, however. :)


InsyleM

I figured this could make for some interesting discussions...
Supose your at 9000'? Flying at 250Kias... with a 20 knot tailwind?
or 270kias with a 30 knot headwind?
Even with the same wind 250kias @ 9000' is diffrent groundspeed then 250kias @ 1000'
So how do they know if you were speeding or not? The transponder only reports altitude..

InsyleM

An acquisition Radar can measure azimuth and distance changes from one sweep to the next. Once the computer is feed the altitude information, which is the unknown, it can do the math, and quite accurately as well.

[InsyleM]

There is only one way that it may be applied. It is due by midnight on the last day of the month, meaning 23:59 and 59 seconds is the last second. On the first second of the first day of the next month, you are overdue.

It's very strictly enforced if you're caught. If you don't have a current annual, you can't fly the aircraft. If you do, or you own it and allow it to be flown, you are hugely liable. On the other hand, there's nothing that says you HAVE to do an annual. If you want to park the aircraft and not accomplish the annual then you're still golden!!

Ok Here's where the confusion sets in.
it says Midnight, NOT 23:59:59
Midnight is the very FIRST part of the day. If they ment that it should expire at the END of the last day, it should have been writen 23:59:59 instead of midnight. IT's ALWAYS after midnight for whatever day it is. Like right now, its 13 hours and 49 minutes past midnight on October 16th.

Also: I dont know how to do multipul quotes in the same message,
But about that "He" meaning mankind in general. I really didn't know that. I knew
in Spanish, a male gender pronoun can mean a group of people includeing females,
but I didnt know it worked that way in English too. :)
Thanks,
-Jonathan

[tigisfat]

Ok Here's where the confusion sets in.
it says Midnight, NOT 23:59:59
Midnight is the very FIRST part of the day. If they ment that it should expire at the END of the last day, it should have been writen 23:59:59 instead of midnight. IT's ALWAYS after midnight for whatever day it is. Like right now, its 13 hours and 49 minutes past midnight on October 16th.

Also: I dont know how to do multipul quotes in the same message,
But about that "He" meaning mankind in general. I really didn't know that. I knew
in Spanish, a male gender pronoun can mean a group of people includeing females,
but I didnt know it worked that way in English too. :)
Thanks,
-Jonathan

right, that's why I said that 23:59 and 59 seconds was the last moment in which it could be accomplished, because it expires at midnight. Also, the first second counts as part of the first day of the next month, and the inspection is now overdue.

[InsyleM]

right, that's why I said that 23:59 and 59 seconds was the last moment in which it could be accomplished, because it expires at midnight. Also, the first second counts as part of the first day of the next month, and the inspection is now overdue.

I still think the way it's worded is improper.

[tigisfat]

I still think the way it's worded is improper.

eh, I can see where you're coming from. There's a lotta things that way. It drives me mad sometimes because I'm a thinker. I don't take things at face value and run, I have to read in.

[alastairmonk]

Perhaps a little real-world common sense is called for .....

If the Regulations require the inspection to be carried out (sometime) on the last day of a particular month (and an aviation lawyer would be able to determine precisely when that is, 0000 + 1 second or 2359 +59s on the stated day) then it makes sense to make sure that the inspection has been done before the last day of the month. Why make life un-necessarily complicated or risk the wrath of the authorities ?

As for the use of the male pronoun, in many cases it is assumed that this includes both males and females, however if the legal document has been properly drawn up, somewhere in the early parts should explicitly state that references to the male gender also apply to the female gender. Anyone with access to the particular document in question could check.

Alastair

[United 232]

The letter of the law is the only thing that can be enforced.
If you don't, you're on a very slippery slope and soon every LEO and judge are going to give their own interpretation on things and punishing people for violating the spirit of the law while not breaking the actual law itself, and letting others go who are guilty as hell but "didn't mean to do it".

Most laws are indeed up for individual interpretation, such as wreckless driving, disturbing the peace, assault, malicious mischief, etc... ;)

[InsyleM]

eh, I can see where you're coming from. There's a lotta things that way. It drives me mad sometimes because I'm a thinker. I don't take things at face value and run, I have to read in.

I'm the same way too....
Ill pick apart words and meanings sometimes...
Alot of lately has come from some misfourtians I had in the Airforce,
where people began to do that to find fault with my work.
Made me paranoid, and such...
They always say use common sence,
then they make so many rules and regs there is no room for common sence,
now all of a sudden im in civilian life, and common sence applies again to some
extent

[alastairmonk]

Most laws are indeed up for individual interpretation, such as wreckless driving, disturbing the peace, assault, malicious mischief, etc... ;)

The difference here is that this is not criminal law, where the onus is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant was guilty of the charge, and have to provide the evidence to gain a guilty vote by the jury. In all the examples you quote there is the question whether or not the offense has been committed.

In this instance the only "grey area" is the exact interpretation of the regulation. How the expiry end-point is determined will ultimately be up to the FAA who enforce the US flight regulations. They will decide (a) whether this end point is 00:00:01 or 23:59:59 on the last day of the term, and (b) whether this end point has been exceeded. There is very little outside of these two conditions to influence whether or not there has been a breach of the regulations. Either the end of the term has been exceeded or not .....

Alastair

[jwenting]

And don't forget that such vaguely worded offenses are a major cause for concern in any society, as they provide police and justice systems with a way to basically lock up anyone whenever they want to.

Some of those laws are deliberately worded so vaguely in fact in order to achieve that effect.

For example Dutch traffic law contains a very broad "article 5" which allows traffic police to stop cars and fine the driver (up to and including impounding the vehicle and taking your license away) for pretty much anything they can make stick as "endangering road safety".
It's being used for anything from persistent tailgating to overtaking in the wrong lane to not using indicators when changing lanes.

And that's just traffic violations... There are far more serious consequences such laws can have for those who fall victim of them.
In Germany during WW2 there was so-called "Shutzhaft" (literally, "protective custody", except it was the state being protected instead of the person placed into custody), which allowed police to take anyone deemed "subversive" and put them into a prison or concentration camp without any form of legal process.

The time limit on FAA inspections is not like that at all. It's pretty well defined (and anyone letting maintenance and inspections wait until the very last day is an idiot anyway).

[tigisfat]

And don't forget that such vaguely worded offenses are a major cause for concern in any society, as they provide police and justice systems with a way to basically lock up anyone whenever they want to.

Some of those laws are deliberately worded so vaguely in fact in order to achieve that effect.

For example Dutch traffic law contains a very broad "article 5" which allows traffic police to stop cars and fine the driver (up to and including impounding the vehicle and taking your license away) for pretty much anything they can make stick as "endangering road safety".
It's being used for anything from persistent tailgating to overtaking in the wrong lane to not using indicators when changing lanes.

And that's just traffic violations... There are far more serious consequences such laws can have for those who fall victim of them.
In Germany during WW2 there was so-called "Shutzhaft" (literally, "protective custody", except it was the state being protected instead of the person placed into custody), which allowed police to take anyone deemed "subversive" and put them into a prison or concentration camp without any form of legal process.

The time limit on FAA inspections is not like that at all. It's pretty well defined (and anyone letting maintenance and inspections wait until the very last day is an idiot anyway).


well said. That's why I'm a right wing maniac. Small government all the way!!

On the other hand, there's plenty of reason to get your annual done on the last day possible. You get a free month a year!!

[mgh]

"I also noticed that through a wording overlook,
the FAR 43, refering to the requirment for washing an aircraft prior to inspection, uses the word "He" This by letter of the law says that only a male can wash and depanel an airplane in preperation for inspection.

I don't know about the US but in the UK there is an Interpration Act that covers this point.

"(a) words importing the masculine gender include the feminine;

(b) words importing the feminine gender include the masculine; "

I imagine that there are similar provisions elsewhere either in the general law or in the definitions.

The law isn't as stupid as some people seem to believe.

EDIT

"CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

SUBCHAPTER A--DEFINITIONS

PART 1--DEFINITIONS AND ABBREVIATIONS

§ 1.3 Rules of construction.

(a)(3) Words importing the masculine gender include the feminine."