ILS Landing and checklist for Jets using Autopilot:

[NikeHerk67]

There have many inquires in the forum lately about landing the default 737-400/800.
Here are some procedures that may help tweak your ILS landing techniques.


Full ILS Landing procedure and checklist for Jets using Autopilot:

NAV/GPS Switch: NAV
NAV1 freq.: Set to RW ILS frequency
CRS: Course Omni-bearing selector set to RW heading.
NAV 2 freq.: Set to airport VOR, VOR/DME, or VORTAC if one exists. (optional)
ADF freq.: Set to OM/NDB if one exists. (optional)
Airspeed: =< 200 knots when final vector to ILS is given by ATC
Angle of attack to ILS =< 45 degrees on either side of RW heading.
FD switch: ON
Autopilot Switch: ON
HDG Switch: ON
ALT Switch: ON
APP Switch: ON
Speed Brake: ARMED Shift /
Auto Brake: Set to 1,2,3,Full (optional)
Acquire ILS "after" glide slope is alive. =< 20nm from RW (required)

Step by step procedures:
As the aircraft begins to acquire the localizer slow to 190 knots, flaps 5 degrees, gear down (brought to you by Alex)
(At this time set the HDG direction to the RW heading).
As the aircraft acquires the localizer slow to 170 knots flaps 15 degrees
As the aircraft acquires the glide slope slow to 150 knots flaps 30 degrees.
(After acquiring the glide slope set the Rate of Climb to about 1200 ft/min).
At this time turn Auto-Throttle OFF and adjust hand throttle to maintain from 135 to 140 knots with flaps set to 40 degrees depending on conditions.
Once the auto-throttle is OFF set the IAS speed to about 240 knots.
Somewhere between 1000 and 500 feet AGL switch off the APP and hand fly to touchdown.
(Note: If told to GO AROUND by ATC the aircraft is set up to make a smooth transition from landing conditions to GO AROUND. First turn Auto-Throttle-ON then hand fly the aircraft while raising the gear and flaps and slowly raising the nose as airspeed is being regained until acquiring a steady climb-out angle and speed. Once this is accomplished apply Autopilot-ON, HDG-ON, ELV-ON and listen for vectors from ATC).
When the main gear touches down the speed brake should automatically deploy.
When the nose gear touches down apply reverse thrust (key F2) until IAS is 80 knots.
Retract the spoilers by hitting the / key. (Retracting the flaps is optional at this time)
Gently apply brakes as needed (if you didn't set the auto brake) and slow to RW exit speed.
If the auto-brake was set then turn it OFF at about 60 knots and slow to RW exit speed.

These procedures can easily be applied to the Corporate Jets as well as the Heavies by slight differences of about 10 knots either way when applying flaps and with approach speeds.
The procedures can be applied to GA aircraft with Instrument capabilities by reducing IAS speeds to meet each aircraft's requirements.

[alexm]

Nice post, Herk!

May I add one thing: In the event of a go-around, once positive rate is established, select gear up.

[NikeHerk67]

Nice post, Herk!

May I add one thing: In the event of a go-around, once positive rate is established, select gear up.

Thanks Alex,

I didn't have to gear up, I forgot to put them down? :D

[alexm]

Hah! I missed that as well! :D

[kwash55]

Herc
great post!!! Thanks


kent

[tkeys]

Great discussion on landing techniques. I copied and printed the checklist! Question for you experienced hands: For a poor schlub like me who does not have the time/talent/interest to get all this just right, is something like the Abacus "CoPilot Pro" a help? Is the jury out on that, since it is for FS9 as well as FSX? Thanks.
Ted

[metro752]

Learn to fly on your own first.

You don't need a co-pilot, or aid really to fly anything in FS, even the most complex payware.

Use the autopilot, and you'll be fine.

[NikeHerk67]

Great discussion on landing techniques. I copied and printed the checklist! Question for you experienced hands: For a poor schlub like me who does not have the time/talent/interest to get all this just right, is something like the Abacus "CoPilot Pro" a help? Is the jury out on that, since it is for FS9 as well as FSX? Thanks.
Ted

Hi Ted,

First of all thanks and welcome to the forums and the hobby.

Personally I'm in agreement with metro, however I'll make an attempt to answer your questioin, which I feel we should always do before offering our opinions. :)

I'm not sure about Abacus because I don't have that particular add-on, but if it's anything like Radar Contact the answer is "probably yes."
Perhaps there is someone here who uses Abacus Copilot Pro. I have several of there add-ons aircraft for FS9 and FSX, but not Copilot Pro.

The copilot in RC can fly the plane after take off when you would normally switch to autopilot and, except for controlling the speed settings, follows the flight plan you choose to imput, just like in FS, in fact you can import you FS flight plan into it. the copilot takes over and flys the whole plan, no matter how many legs, can handle all the communications with ATC, descend, follow all the ATC vectors, sets up the ILS approach frequency, access the localizer and glide slope, and when he/she is all set up to land, turns the aircraft over to you, the Captain, to land. ;)

That's just about everything but the initial take off and the final landing.

I'm just saying, that as I have RC and, if that's the sort of thing you're looking for, it sure offers an alternative for learning many of the procedures involved.

Regards,

[tkeys]

Thanks for your speedy reply, Herk--and thanks to Metro as well--after all I asked for an opinion... Guess my question was prompted by my disappointment in my own lack of progress on FSX. Here I have this beautiful new computer and I don't seem to be getting anywhere (fast).
Have tried "It's your Plane", but I bombed out on that!!
Just want to go ahead and fly and see something. Thanks again Herk for encouraging me to explore and maybe I'll look for a copy of Radar Contact.
Ted

[metro752]

approach frequency and course, glide slope intercept, decision altitude, touchdown zone altitude, missed approach procedure............


Read this website

http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/ils.htm

It is the best website I know of that will teach you the basics. Not sure what the FSX learning center offers, but I'm sure both are good.


Suggest you start on their home page, http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm

[alexm]

The copilot in RC can fly the plane after take off when you would normally switch to autopilot...

This is true for FS planes, but not necesarily for add-ons. I fly mostly PMDG 747X or Eaglesoft Piper TwinCo, and RC can't fly them for me. Fortunately, I prefer to do my own flying. ;)

[metro752]

I bought the LevelD 767 for FSX the other day, and am waiting on the PMDG MD11.

Too bad my FS9 stuff doesn't work in FSX. Sucks.


I have so many Dreamfleet planes, that I never use. I should look into it again. Just so low, and slow.

[NikeHerk67]

This is true for FS planes, but not necesarily for add-ons. I fly mostly PMDG 747X or Eaglesoft Piper TwinCo, and RC can't fly them for me. Fortunately, I prefer to do my own flying. ;)

Hi Alex,

You're right, I keep thinking in terms of default aircraft. I sort of assume that the people asking questions here in the Newcomer's forum are still flying the defaults. I have a few add-ons that work with RC, but most don't. As long as they have the basic autopilot modes they work. OTO hasn't figured out how to use the Sperry though. :)

I like RC for the simple fact that ATC is more realistic with "holds" options and other choices like flying SIDS and STAR procedures you actually have programmed in the flight plan. It's a good learning tool IMHO. I don't use the chatter anymore, as I've heard it all. I like listening to real world ATC sometimes when flying into airports that can be tuned in, but they never seem to acknowledge me. :D

I'm curious, since I've heard so much about the PMDG 747. Can you actually hand fly and navigate with it or just program the FMC and set back and watch it fly? I had the Dream Fleet 737-400 with the FMC few years ago, flew it for awhile, but got bored real quickly. When bstolle said the 767 couldn't fly a VOR I lost interest in that as well. I'm also curious about as to what the glide slope ratio is on the PMDG? Most add-ons I have tested have a GS ratio in the 20:1 range and I've seen as high as 30:1. That's one reason I fly mostly default. That and I don't like spending a half hour or more to start the thing.

An ATC friend of mine was telling me a story about when he once requested an aircraft to hold at a certain point. He was expecting a quick response, but there was a delay. When he asked if they acknowledged the request, the pilot or copilt responded by saying "Yes, were programming the FMC". .......true story. :D

[alexm]

Hi, Herk-

Before I answer your PMDG 747 q's, I'll (boringly, probably) give a little perspective. Three years ago, I flew the Level D 767 about 90% of the time, but I eventually got tired of it, and actually stopped simming. Two years ago, I got FSX. After doing all the missions, had trouble sustaining interest in simming. Bought the PMDG 747, but shockingly never installed it. Took a chance and picked up a nice GA plane (Eaglesoft Piper TwinCo) and fell in love with low & slow. Started a RTW flight. About 51,000nm (out of 70,000+) into it, one of my legs was 2,000 nm across some uninteresting scenery in Africa. I decided that in the time it would take to fly the leg in the Piper I could install and start learning about the 747. So, I hired a virtual ferry pilot (lol) and did exactly that. Long story short, I still haven't finished the RTW, and now routinely fly the PMDG 747. I typically go to flightaware and pull a flight that interests me, let ASX download the actual weather that goes along for the time, and duplicate the flight.

As you may know, the PMDG 747 is amazingly like the real aircraft. It can be handflown (just the real one); the FMC is just incredible, and knowing how to program it allows one to duplicate all RW ops, as far as I know. One example you may appreciate is when Radar Contact gives a crossing restriction during descent to be at XXXXX by 30nm from a given navaid, you can program the FMC so give a nice green circle on the ND showing where that is, and it is relatively simple then to hit your restriction.

Flying a VOR radial is done via the FMC (again, RW ops).

Sorry, I guess I don't know what you're asking as far as glide slope ratio.

You aren't required to start cold & dark. You can save panel states and start how you wish. Flight planning can be done manually, but it also comes with 350 or so FP's covering various parts of the world.

I can believe your story about the hold. RW of course PNF would acknowledge ATC while PF program the FMC.

=========================================================

Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a commercial, as that's not my intent. Nor am I affiliated with them. But this plane just won't let me get bored. Fuel planning, systems monitoring, entering winds aloft data, etc. It's all there. It's a serious add-on, and if I include this add-on in a lot of my posts, it's merely to provide reference to my content.


Cheers,

[NikeHerk67]

Hi, Herk-

Before I answer your PMDG 747 q's, I'll (boringly, probably) give a little perspective. Three years ago, I flew the Level D 767 about 90% of the time, but I eventually got tired of it, and actually stopped simming. Two years ago, I got FSX. After doing all the missions, had trouble sustaining interest in simming. Bought the PMDG 747, but shockingly never installed it. Took a chance and picked up a nice GA plane (Eaglesoft Piper TwinCo) and fell in love with low & slow. Started a RTW flight. About 51,000nm (out of 70,000+) into it, one of my legs was 2,000 nm across some uninteresting scenery in Africa. I decided that in the time it would take to fly the leg in the Piper I could install and start learning about the 747. So, I hired a virtual ferry pilot (lol) and did exactly that. Long story short, I still haven't finished the RTW, and now routinely fly the PMDG 747. I typically go to flightaware and pull a flight that interests me, let ASX download the actual weather that goes along for the time, and duplicate the flight.

As you may know, the PMDG 747 is amazingly like the real aircraft. It can be handflown (just the real one); the FMC is just incredible, and knowing how to program it allows one to duplicate all RW ops, as far as I know. One example you may appreciate is when Radar Contact gives a crossing restriction during descent to be at XXXXX by 30nm from a given navaid, you can program the FMC so give a nice green circle on the ND showing where that is, and it is relatively simple then to hit your restriction.

Flying a VOR radial is done via the FMC (again, RW ops).

Sorry, I guess I don't know what you're asking as far as glide slope ratio.

You aren't required to start cold & dark. You can save panel states and start how you wish. Flight planning can be done manually, but it also comes with 350 or so FP's covering various parts of the world.

I can believe your story about the hold. RW of course PNF would acknowledge ATC while PF program the FMC.

=========================================================

Sorry if I'm starting to sound like a commercial, as that's not my intent. Nor am I affiliated with them. But this plane just won't let me get bored. Fuel planning, systems monitoring, entering winds aloft data, etc. It's all there. It's a serious add-on, and if I include this add-on in a lot of my posts, it's merely to provide reference to my content.


Cheers,

Alex,

By no sense of the word are you ever boring. Your synopses are always factual and interesting. The fact that you're none bias adds credence to what you write plus you always answer the question with an explanation. These boards are polluted with opinions without explanations. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. :) From what you write, the PMDG 747x sounds like it would great to have. In fact I just may bite the bullet and purchase it. Wow, did I just say that? :eek:

Glide Ratio is very simple. It's the ratio of the distance an aircraft will glide (with no power), or dead shick, to the elevation it's flying. For instance at an altitude of 5280 ft. AGL, (one mile) the Boeing 747 will glide 17 statue miles. That would give it a glide ratio of 17.1. The space shuttle, at landing configuration, is about 4.5:1. Thirty-to-one is pretty much what you'd expect a soar plane to get. Another term for glide ratio is "lift to drag ratio".

FSX actually has a pretty good test for the 737-800 in the Limited Options Mission in FSX if you choose option 2, I believe, which is the farther of the two choices. I figure it's about 17 or 18 to 1, which is just about where it should be. In fact the FAA and the NTSB require that a Commercial airliner have at least a 16 to 1 glide slope.

Regards,

[alexm]

Hi, Herk-

Glad to hear of your impending purchase (LOL)!

I am embarrassed to say that while I do know what glide ratio is, when I read your post, my decaffeinated brain was thinking of normal ops, e.g. power on, and couldn't make sense out of it.

I can find no reference of the glide ratio for the PMDG 747 in the manual, but I bet I can find out for you if you really want. I would be flabbergasted if it was any different from the real 747.

Obviously in a 4-engine aircraft, it would take extraordinary circumstances to find yourself dead-sticking it. There is a wealth of fuel planning charts in the manual, as well as an accurate freeware fuel planner I found. So my advice is to get this bird, plan fuel consumption carefully, and stay away from volcanic ash! :D