View Full Version : Principles Of Air Combat
xxmikexx
03-18-2008, 08:21 PM
What are the principles of air combat? They aren't necessarily simply the Dicta Boelke, those are simply important rules of thumb, not a straightjacket.
For example, Richard Bong, the top-scoring US ace of WW2 in the Pacific, often remarked that he was the worst shot in the Army Air Corps. His solution to the problem of how to make kills?
It was to get on his opponent's six so tightly that he could not fail to miss because he would then be left with a point-blank straight ahead shot. No deflection shooting whatsoever. Why bother? For him it would only have been wasting ammunition.
But how did he get there? How might he have achieved on-six and close-in so often?
Kurtvw
03-18-2008, 11:01 PM
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xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 02:49 AM
Kurtvw,
You wrote "The trick is to learn to know what your opponent is going to pull next, and beat him to the position" You also wrote "... managing position and energy will allow you to start taking options away from your opponent, just like chess..."
I have almost no simulated air combat experience. However, you have just given me a way of looking at the problem that I will never forget ...
And I do play chess and so I know exactly what you mean, in the realm of chess, by taking options away.
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By the way, is there a particular game you would recommend for online combat?
EDIT: I just saw your other post in the other thread recommending Aces High.
Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 11:20 AM
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xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 12:24 PM
Kurtvw,
A scenario. I can only imagine this because, as I said, I have no actual experience. However, I 've done some reading and I'll ask you about the following situation ...
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You're in your Spitfire, turning inside a 190 who dove down on you and started a stern chase, which you have only just noticed. So you broke sharp left, and now he is trying to follow you in the turn. So ...
You could continue the turn, knowing that eventually you will be on his six. But you also know that he has the ability to fly away any time he wants, and you want to kill him before he can make such a decision.
Therefore you might also consider doing (I hope I've got the terminology right) a high yo-yo, to try to force the issue by putting yourself on his six as a result of making him overrun you from underneath while you are hanging above him, so to speak.
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Would you please explain for the readership what the advantages and drawbacks are of these two maneuvers (plus any others that might apply). And you will be better than I at explaining with words only what a yo-yo is. (But they didn't use that term at the time, did they?)
P.S. I'll be the 190 driver. After you execute whatever maneuver you elect, I'm going to do my best to kill you. Again I will have to go by my gut, but I'll try to describe what I would have done, after which you can tell me what i SHOULD have done.
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EDIT: I've had time to think, which I wouldn't in actual combat, which presumably is where training and experience kick in. Anyway, I'm in the 190. I see you break left. I know you can turn more tightly than I can. So I decide to try to head you off at the pass by going back upstairs and doing a high yo-yo of my own, preventing the overrun and, in effect, allowing me to turn inside you, albeit from above.
So my plan is to try for a diving shot from your seven or eight. But I'm a good shot (and I certainly did very well at real world skeet) so I figure I might nail you. Even if I don't, I'll at least be taking the initiative and making you react to me, because I probably will still have the speed advantage.
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Okay, teach, you've got the floor.
Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 12:41 PM
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xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 12:56 PM
Kurtvw,
This is great! Regrettably I've got to run about three hours worth of errands. However, before I leave, let's do this. Imagine that you and I are the only aricraft in the sky, just to simplify things. (But I hear you. Get in and get out before S-word happens.)
Anyway, let's exchange roles ...
I'm in the Spit and a squadron buddy announces that you are on my six and closing fast. I yaw left, put my right wing down, chop the throttle, drop the gear, and apply full flaps. My move amounts to a jink combined with an extremely high drag sideslip in the horizontal plane, and you're going to close the distance very quickly. With luck, before you see what I actually did, you will have slid right by me. I will then kick out the sideslip and take snap shots at you as head toward my twelve. In fact, I will track you with rudder and fire as long as you're close in.
Then, whether I've hit you or not, I will dive away to regain airspeed and simply bring the fight down to a lower altitude.
Back in a few hours.
Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 01:03 PM
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xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 04:52 PM
Kurtvw,
Okay. I see why the put-the-brakes-on tactic is a loser. But as a rookie I still have two related questions ...
First of all, I was thinking that as a beginner you are going to out-fly me regardless of equipment, and you're certainly going to out-think me. Therefore I thought "Okay, let's do something completely unexpected here. Maybe I'll be able to put something together out of the result of getting him off balance."
Secondly, what if I in fact execute the earlier described dumb maneuver and then dive away? What can I then do to try to overcome your positional and diving speed advantage?
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By the way, I used to shoot pool. The game is only partly about making shots. It is mostly about having each shot set you up for the next one, and about not leaving your opponent in a good position if you miss your shot. So in straight pool, the order in which the balls are run is very important.
You probably will choose a different order than I depending on your shot-making strengths and weaknesses, but our fundamental strategic goal must be the same -- maximize our chances of running the table while, if we miss a shot, minimizing the opponent's chance of doing the same thing.
Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 07:43 PM
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Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 07:49 PM
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xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 09:00 PM
Good grief, Kurtvw, apparently I said something that made you think I was unappreciative. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I do hope we'll continue with your insightful analyses. I'm a very analytical person, much more an FS flight test person than a Point A to Point B pleasure flyer, for example. So if you don't mind, let's simply ignore your most recent post and go back to discussing the principles underlying recommended tactics in various situations.
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As for Aces High, I accept your offer, and I thank you for it. Please write to mike@pcgamecontrols.com so we can set it up. (No forum mail, please.)
But I would like you to understand that I have an ulterior motive that has little to do with my learning to be an effective air combat pilot per se, and that the Aces High experience probably will not help me in that area.
You see, I'm now planning to follow through with the testing of the military usefulness of my AirBoss utility. Never mind what it does, but to accomplish the testing I need to fly offline in the very suite of military sim games that I already own. It's why I purchased them in the first place.
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Re online, my initial flying with the Sturmovik guys will be a test of my first game-specific AirBoss setup, which depends on my being able to modify the global controls configuration file, which I certainly can do in Sturmovik. Unless Aces High will offer the same modify-the-controls assignments capability, it would be of only limited short term value in my testing.
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Now ... I dove away from you because I'm a rookie and didn't know any better. Having made that mistake, what should I do to try to gain the intiative? Or am I dead?
xxmikexx
03-19-2008, 09:22 PM
Kurtvw,
I should have mentioned that one of the main reasons for my wanting to keep the tactics discussion going is to build forum readership. That plus wanting you to teach the readership as well as me.
Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 09:48 PM
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Kurtvw
03-19-2008, 10:01 PM
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xxmikexx
03-20-2008, 12:59 PM
Kurtvw,
For the record, AirBoss does not affect the aircraft dynamics in any way. It's a controls interface utility. Anyway ...
No, I'm not looking for iron-clad rules, just nuggets of insight. For example, when I presented the stop-in-midair tactic, you pointed out that I would be presenting a broad target to the guy on my six. That really got my attention because it's a thing to be considered in other situations as well, I suspect.
And so I asked about my diving away. Maybe I shouldn't have done any of that stuff, but I did, and now I'm diving away, and you're going to follow.
Your plane outweighs mine and will outperform it in a dive. You can also outrun me in level flight. But I can out-turn you (and briefly out-climb you?) once I get my airspeed back up.
How can I put my one strength to advantage? What might I do to put you off balance again and regain the initiative even though you have the equipment advantage?
Kurtvw
03-20-2008, 08:15 PM
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