View Full Version : Re: Like flying a bathtub? Those flamming automatics!
artburke
02-26-2002, 06:42 PM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
rrllff
02-26-2002, 10:16 PM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
captainbernie
02-27-2002, 12:22 PM
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
The funny old problem of QNH and QFE! lol...
I think it would be useful if along facilites directory a category of ILS is
supplied for each airport. All the airports that I have used claimed to be CAT
III but well its not that important. Kinda beats the idea of a sim to manage to
hold a plane straight on the runway, have thing stagger into the sky only to
have a few seconds later the Nintendo take over and fly a circuit or whatever
until its landed again and the pilot has just keep the thing straight again.
Back to the old joke of a pilot and a dog! lol
It was really only an idle curiosity! Nothing major really. I have noted that
the USA airports do seem to have more detail put into them with things like
nav-aids etc. Shame they couldn't produce different 'flavours' of FS for
different regions, like they did with Encarta.
I suppose, however, that scenery detail and the like becomes a bit irrelevant
when you are doing 2 mile vis IFR lol. Frame rates shoot! 55+fps haha.
I suppose all this teaches us to have a healthy distrust of the
automatics....how many times have ropey automatics caused problems? Better to
fly the thing than have it fly you!
Anyway thanks for listening! Have fun when larking on in the atmosphere!
C.B.
artburke
02-27-2002, 01:49 PM
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
The funny old problem of QNH and QFE! lol...
I think it would be useful if along facilites directory a category of ILS is
supplied for each airport. All the airports that I have used claimed to be CAT
III but well its not that important. Kinda beats the idea of a sim to manage to
hold a plane straight on the runway, have thing stagger into the sky only to
have a few seconds later the Nintendo take over and fly a circuit or whatever
until its landed again and the pilot has just keep the thing straight again.
Back to the old joke of a pilot and a dog! lol
It was really only an idle curiosity! Nothing major really. I have noted that
the USA airports do seem to have more detail put into them with things like
nav-aids etc. Shame they couldn't produce different 'flavours' of FS for
different regions, like they did with Encarta.
I suppose, however, that scenery detail and the like becomes a bit irrelevant
when you are doing 2 mile vis IFR lol. Frame rates shoot! 55+fps haha.
I suppose all this teaches us to have a healthy distrust of the
automatics....how many times have ropey automatics caused problems? Better to
fly the thing than have it fly you!
Anyway thanks for listening! Have fun when larking on in the atmosphere!
C.B.
Do a search in the files area for either "Herve Sors" or "EasyNavs" (might be
under Easy Navs). Herve wrote a terrific program (actually several of them)
that lets you add navaids to the scenery files. You can put your own ILS in at
whatever airport you like. You can also modify the glideslope, localizer
location, etc. to your heart's content. Excellent program (as is everything he
wrote).
Art
captainbernie
02-28-2002, 10:08 PM
Do a search in the files area for either "Herve Sors" or "EasyNavs" (might be
under Easy Navs). Herve wrote a terrific program (actually several of them)
that lets you add navaids to the scenery files. You can put your own ILS in at
whatever airport you like. You can also modify the glideslope, localizer
location, etc. to your heart's content. Excellent program (as is everything he
wrote).
Art
Cheers for that! VERY useful program! What will you have from the bar? lol
C.B.
artburke
03-01-2002, 09:18 AM
Do a search in the files area for either "Herve Sors" or "EasyNavs" (might be
under Easy Navs). Herve wrote a terrific program (actually several of them)
that lets you add navaids to the scenery files. You can put your own ILS in at
whatever airport you like. You can also modify the glideslope, localizer
location, etc. to your heart's content. Excellent program (as is everything he
wrote).
Art
Cheers for that! VERY useful program! What will you have from the bar? lol
C.B.
I hereby issue two caveats - (1) read the documentation!!! Excellent program,
very well documented, but you'll probably get absolutely nowhere without
reading the docs! (2) unfortunately, you'll also have to learn how to
decompress and compress many of the scenery files you'll work with. Pain in the
butt!
If you can, upgrade as soon as possible to FS2002 (I personally think the CPU
requirements for it are better (lesser) than for FS2K. Additionally, Microsoft
did not compress the scenery files in FS2002 and they're fantastically easy to
work with using EasyNavs.
I'll have a Glenlivet on the rocks!
Art
jdoehlert
03-07-2002, 08:23 AM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
I'm sure that you are right in the real world. However, the simulator doesn't
have a radio beacon. The only way it can "follow" the glideslope is to compare
the altitude being reported to the calculated altitude that the glide slope
should have and make adjustments to compensate. So, if the barometric pressure
setting makes the altimeter give the wrong altitude, the autopilot will try to
work with that information, often with disaterous results!
Bob F.
artburke
03-08-2002, 06:05 PM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
Unfortunately the glideslope indicator doesn't give a hoot what your altimeter
says! If you don't adjust the altimeter setting you could think the ground is
still a hundred feet or more away and it might not be!
What you stated is correct. It just pays to really understand where your plane
is physically located in terms of AGL/MSL. The glideslope offers no sort of
"countdown" feature!
Art
manises
03-08-2002, 07:27 PM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
the size of one of those indian aircraft(cessna and pipers)?
Every since the time that FS came on a single floppy I've never trusted the AP!
Recently certain stupidities I have really brought this fact home. The AP is
not so bad for most ordinary things such as following SID and STAR routes but
anything closely resembling a landing...just so dire!
The other day I have a Learjet out and thought do a bit of mucking about over
chicago and bring the begger into land. Manually set her up on the ILS, no
auto-select on the localiser. Checked and double checked! Thought, "OK sunny,
let's see how much they have improved the APR function. Didn't hold the speed
well at all. Started to buck the flamming thing like a 2CV with blamonge for
suspesion then piled the thing into the ground 4nm DME! I was staggered!
Tried it on the 737. Much the same. Different airport this time. Teesside
(lovely long runway btw for those who want to practice with concorde or various
failures with 747's etc! For those who don't know but it's used for a divertion
airport for the shuttle or something, alledgedly! lol) I digress....This time
not content with trying to dig to Australia the thing flew completely left of
the runway.
This staggers me...As I'm sure you are aware, particularly in good weather, you
can trim just about any aircraft so it 'flies itself' or 'hands off' onto the
runway. The only thing you must do is remember to flare! haha
OK before you all start, I know its bad airmanship to let a plane deviate off a
course or put it in unesscessary danger; but getting the thing out of the box,
one has to test such things surely?
I'd be glad to hear if anyone has had similar probs, but instead of moan about
them anyone have a fix? All patches r added etc...
And don't say hand fly everything....I've got to chase after those stewardesses
sometime when they can't get away! haha!
C.B.
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
Unfortunately the glideslope indicator doesn't give a hoot what your altimeter
says! If you don't adjust the altimeter setting you could think the ground is
still a hundred feet or more away and it might not be!
What you stated is correct. It just pays to really understand where your plane
is physically located in terms of AGL/MSL. The glideslope offers no sort of
"countdown" feature!
Art
I find that Wilco van Deijl's superb utility gpws98 (updated for FS2K by Ernie
Alston's update gpws2000) removes the need on approach to worry about the
barometric pressure re-setting because the call-outs on approach are always
AGL.
Of course, I always do re-set the QNH before turning final to the setting given
by atc both as a discipline - in case I can ever afford to fly for real - and
in case Wilco's gpws should fail - a very rare occurrence.
All the best.
Peter Preston
jdoehlert
03-11-2002, 10:18 AM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
Snip snip snip...
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
I'm sure that you are right in the real world. However, the simulator doesn't
have a radio beacon. The only way it can "follow" the glideslope is to compare
the altitude being reported to the calculated altitude that the glide slope
should have and make adjustments to compensate. So, if the barometric pressure
setting makes the altimeter give the wrong altitude, the autopilot will try to
work with that information, often with disaterous results!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
sorry I'm behind in getting back to you.
Your explanation is amazing to me. It explains some strange circumstances
I've seen in the past that I couldn't fathom. How do you know about all these
obscure little details??
And, do you know where I could find a good tutorial on using the slip indicator
gauge(s). What does the needle (left and right) above the ball indicate, and
what is the correct response to these indications? Trying to improve my plane
handling skills...
Thanks, Jamie
jdoehlert
03-11-2002, 10:33 AM
snip, snip, snip...
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
Unfortunately the glideslope indicator doesn't give a hoot what your altimeter
says! If you don't adjust the altimeter setting you could think the ground is
still a hundred feet or more away and it might not be!
What you stated is correct. It just pays to really understand where your plane
is physically located in terms of AGL/MSL. The glideslope offers no sort of
"countdown" feature!
Art
Hello Art
I sympathize with you on the moving; that's hard work...
Did you see Bob's response? I'm confused! not that my confusion is an unusual
state of affairs... Bob seems to say that in the real world glide slope is
independent of altimeter settings, but in the sim program they are
(artifically) linked...?
Jamie
PS I'm looking for a tutorial on slip indicator function, if you know of one
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
Snip snip snip...
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
I'm sure that you are right in the real world. However, the simulator doesn't
have a radio beacon. The only way it can "follow" the glideslope is to compare
the altitude being reported to the calculated altitude that the glide slope
should have and make adjustments to compensate. So, if the barometric pressure
setting makes the altimeter give the wrong altitude, the autopilot will try to
work with that information, often with disaterous results!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
sorry I'm behind in getting back to you.
Your explanation is amazing to me. It explains some strange circumstances
I've seen in the past that I couldn't fathom. How do you know about all these
obscure little details??
And, do you know where I could find a good tutorial on using the slip indicator
gauge(s). What does the needle (left and right) above the ball indicate, and
what is the correct response to these indications? Trying to improve my plane
handling skills...
Thanks, Jamie
Mostly, I get my information by experience. That and I'm somewhat familiar with
computer programming and what can be done with digital logic.
Have you looked in the flight lessons of the help menu for understanding the
attitude gauge.
Bob F.
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
Snip snip snip...
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
I'm sure that you are right in the real world. However, the simulator doesn't
have a radio beacon. The only way it can "follow" the glideslope is to compare
the altitude being reported to the calculated altitude that the glide slope
should have and make adjustments to compensate. So, if the barometric pressure
setting makes the altimeter give the wrong altitude, the autopilot will try to
work with that information, often with disaterous results!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
sorry I'm behind in getting back to you.
Your explanation is amazing to me. It explains some strange circumstances
I've seen in the past that I couldn't fathom. How do you know about all these
obscure little details??
And, do you know where I could find a good tutorial on using the slip indicator
gauge(s). What does the needle (left and right) above the ball indicate, and
what is the correct response to these indications? Trying to improve my plane
handling skills...
Thanks, Jamie
Mostly, I get my information by experience. That and I'm somewhat familiar with
computer programming and what can be done with digital logic.
Have you looked at the flight lessons in the help folder for understanding the
attitude gauge. It's the lesson two of the Ground school PDF.
Bob F.
jdoehlert
03-12-2002, 07:36 AM
Is it me or do the autopilots not quite work too good with anything larger than
Snip snip snip...
The ILS doesn't care one diddly about your auto-throttle! The ILS (when sensed
by the approach funtion of the autopilot) controls localizer (always) and
glideslope (not always, but generally - there are a surprising number of ILS
without glideslope and backcourse hardly ever has glideslope). It has nothing
to do with the throttle - that's up to you - or the autothrottle!
Auto-land is *not* a generic function of *any* standard autopilot - regardless
of whether you're in the sim or in real life. There are indeed other avionics
available in the real McCoy to do that. Many airlines permit using these
devices to land the plane *most* of the time. Those same airlines require the
pilot/co-pilot to manually control the approach and landing a reasonable
percentage of time - it maintains their proficiency.
Around the time you reach DH, you take control of the plane and land manually -
you'll most likely experience a lot less crashes.
Art
I might add, once again, that you must reset the altimeter (pressure) during
the approach to keep the ILS glideslope from either taking you over the runway
or slaming you into the ground before getting there. It can be misreading the
altitude by a 100 feet or so otherwise!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
I would have thought the ILS control of approach on autopilot would not have
anything to do with the altimeter setting one way or the other; I thought the
plane was following a fixed angle radio beacon/beam when following the ILS,
(assuming glide slope indication) physically set by the fixed position of the
transmitter on the ground, which of course doesn't vary regardless of
atmospheric pressure changes...does this make any sense?
Jamie Doehlert
I'm sure that you are right in the real world. However, the simulator doesn't
have a radio beacon. The only way it can "follow" the glideslope is to compare
the altitude being reported to the calculated altitude that the glide slope
should have and make adjustments to compensate. So, if the barometric pressure
setting makes the altimeter give the wrong altitude, the autopilot will try to
work with that information, often with disaterous results!
Bob F.
Hello Bob,
sorry I'm behind in getting back to you.
Your explanation is amazing to me. It explains some strange circumstances
I've seen in the past that I couldn't fathom. How do you know about all these
obscure little details??
And, do you know where I could find a good tutorial on using the slip indicator
gauge(s). What does the needle (left and right) above the ball indicate, and
what is the correct response to these indications? Trying to improve my plane
handling skills...
Thanks, Jamie
Mostly, I get my information by experience. That and I'm somewhat familiar with
computer programming and what can be done with digital logic.
Have you looked at the flight lessons in the help folder for understanding the
attitude gauge. It's the lesson two of the Ground school PDF.
Bob F.
thanks, I will check it out
Jamie
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