Strange airport views with FS Global 2008

[KHKH]

Hello everybody

I am a new member in this forum and I have the following questions:

I have FSX installed. A few weeks ago I installed FS Global 2008. As you certainly know, FS Global 2008 is working with the default FSX scenery but the resolution is much better as the default one of FSX. Since this moment there are many airports which looks strange now (They are situated on a mountain or in a slope, they don't match with the surrounding terrain). In the opinion of FS Global 2008 this is due to the fact that there are wrong airport elevation datas in the default sceneries of FSX.

My questions are:

Can I create new BGL files of the involved airports based on the default ones and do the necessary changes (elevation datas or what ever) to correct these horrible pictures (or at least to improve them a little)?

When yes, which program(s) do I need and what I have to do exactly?

I have no experience as a developer and I have no knowledge as a programmer.

Any answers and help would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much.

Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Well generally if you add custom mesh (which is what this sounds like) and the elevations at an airport is different than that set in FSX then you will get the effects you describe. I would have hoped that the developers of new mesh might be more helpful about airport altitude problems. However to change the altitude of an airport is not that easy. It can be done using a small piece of xml that can then be compiled into a bgl file. However that file must be placed in the scenery file structure of FSX so that it is read before the default airport. This technique has been described before in other posts but can be fraught with problems. So for example you will almost certainly also need to create a modified bgl file using a tool like AFX, Airport Design Editor or FSX Planner to correct the altitudes of elements like runways, starts and helipads. If you don't then some parts of the airport will be at the correct level and others like the runways may well be where they are in the default so up in the air or down on the ground.

There may also be other difficulties with the airport polygon that flattens everything out.

[KHKH]

So what I understand from your answer, it is not so easy I thought to resolve this problem, because there could be other difficulties then.

I did a test with FSX Planner. I changed the airport, runways etc. elevations for Madeira in Portugal, which are to high in the default scenery FSX). The elevation of the airport was lower after my correction (controled with the airport elevation in GPS), but the surrounding terrain was still as before, so the whole thing finally looks even more strange as without correction.

Anyway many thanks for your answer.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Changoing and airport altitude with FSX Planner and creating a new bgl will not help. This is one of the reasons that Airport Design Editor does not allow you to do that (although the Pro version will have a way to do it). The problem is that whilst most data for an airport can be replaced with a custom bgl file loaded at a higher priority in the scenery this does not work for altitude. You must create a new bgl file containing just the header information about the airport similar to the code below.


<Airport
country="Canada"
state="British Columbia"
city="Comox"
name="Comox"
lat="49.7108334302902"
lon="-124.886666536331"
alt="83.993F"
magvar="-19"
trafficScalar="0.7"
airportTestRadius="16404.2F"
ident="CYQQ"
/>

Change the alt attribute to the new figure and compile it. BUT this new bgl file needs to load before the stock bgl file that contains the airport. This is because FS reads the first airport altitude it finds and ignores any later ones. This behavior turns what you might expect, and what happens in most other cases, on it's head.

Unfortunately as I mentioned earlier that is not the end of it. Some elements will find the new airport altitude but others will either have their own altitude set or find the altitude of the airport background or flatten. These are not stored in the same place as the airport (APX) but almost certainly in a CVX file. These are created using Shp2Vec and not BglComp.

[KHKH]

I've created with FSX Planner a new bgl file for Madeira containing just the header information and placed this new bgl file in the scenery folder of Addon Scenery in the FSX.

It did'nt help, although the Addon Scenery has a higher priority as the stock bgl file. So I think, this is'nt the right way to ensure, that this new bgl file is loaded before the stock bgl file.

Please can you explain me, what I have to do exactly, that the new file will be loaded first.

Below you find a text from the Inside FS Global 2008 manual (only chapter 8) where the problem is described (unfortunally I don't know how to add the images). There is a solution in to improve the looks. They adapt the terrain to the wrong airport altitude in a smooth way, but they did'nt explain how they do it. Have you an idea?

Thank you very much for your help.
Heinz

8. FS GLOBAL AND AIRPORTS: INTRODUCING LOCAL MESHES
FS Global changes the elevation of the Flight Simulator terrain, and nothing else. For
that reason there are very few compatibility problems with other add-ons or the
default scenery. There are however problems, when scenery objects introduce their
own elevation data and that value differs too much from SRTM data. In flat and clear
areas where airports usually can be found, the reliability of SRTM data is very high
and their vertical accuracy is mostly within 2 m. In all cases where we have analyzed
conflicts, the SRTM data were correct.
One typical reason for a conflict lies in a very old concept that is used in scenery
design for Flight Simulator. FSX airports usually have to be totally flat at one unique
elevation. The surrounding terrain is forced to that elevation and flattened. Now
Microsoft, as well as developers of add-on scenery, uses the official aerodrome
elevation to build the airport upon. Unfortunately that aerodrome elevation always
represents the highest of all runway thresholds; it is an extreme value, not an
average value or the elevation of the airport reference point.
And real world airports are everything but flat, even rather large and popular airports
have a significant slope. In Madrid, for example, threshold elevations differ by 123
feet, in Cairo it’s a difference of 192 feet – almost the height of a regular CAT I
minimum. What happens when the misplaced airport enforces such a wrong elevation
can be seen here:
This is the western end of the airport of La Paz, Bolivia. The runway 10 threshold has
a real world elevation of 13.112 ft, Microsoft places it at 13.313 ft – that is an error of
201 ft. The higher elevation is true for the other end, runway 28, and the real world
airport has a significant slope. The slope can be seen in the SRTM data, which are
very precise and deliver the correct picture. So the runway should be at the level of
the surrounding terrain. The problem is not so obvious with the elevation mesh of the
default scenery, because due to its coarse resolution, it adapts smoother to the airport
elevation.
So the problem is that the airport enforces a wrong elevation. We cannot solve the
problem, as it is impossible for a project like FS Global to redesign so many airports,
but we can improve the looks. We just added a little file to FS Global named SLLP.BGL
(SLLP is the ICAO code for La Paz) which adapts the terrain to the wrong airport
elevation in a smooth way. It is not correct, but it looks better:
This file is installed in the scenery area “local meshes”, which is registered in the
scenery library with a higher priority than FS Global and therefore supersedes the
default FS Global terrain. Placing this local mesh in a separate file allows us to provide
the correct elevation data with the default FS Global mesh. So if ever add-on scenery
with a correctly sloped runway becomes available, it will fit perfectly into FS Global
after just removing the local mesh file. FS Global is developed by people who have a regular job and just spend their spare
time with Flight Simulation. It exceeds our capacity to provide such a local mesh for
every airport or add-on scenery in the world. So if you are a developer and intend to
place an airport at a locally wrong elevation, we ask you to provide such a local mesh.
Finally, here is another famous airport, as seen when combining with high-resolution
terrain data. It is the island of Madeira in the Atlantic Ocean. Microsoft has placed the
aerodrome at an elevation of 711 ft, while the real world elevation is 147 ft for
runway 05, and 192 ft for runway 23. That is an elevation error of more than 500 ft.
Not the only one, but probably the most prominent one. We are asking you to
understand that it makes no sense to adopt any precise elevation mesh to such
nonsense data.

[scruffyduck]

The file needs to be loaded before any other.

The first layer to load in my scenery.cfg is scenery\world so putting the bgl into Scenery\World\Scenery would make sure it is read before any airport files and the altitude specified in there should be kept. Putting it into Addon Scenery won't help.

[KHKH]

I put it now in Scenery/World/Scenery. The altitude is corrected now, but there are other difficulties now, as you said in your answers. The airport is in a hole now, there are high rocks around it, it looks really horrible.

I think with my knowledge I can't resolve these problems, so I capitulate.

Nevertheless thank you very much for your help.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Sorry but it is not easy. The only option is not to use the enhanced mesh or develop your own in the area of the airport. This is possible with a tool like SBuilderX I think but not a trivial exercise. Sometimes I think we try too hard for realism in the FS world. Sometime I think it is better to compromise for visual effect rather than knowing that a particular place is exactly at the right altitude or that a given runway is preceisely where it is in the real world.

[KHKH]

Yes I can deactivate FS Global 2008 in the scenery library to avoid this airport problem. But you know the landscapes with FS Global 2008 are so beautiful (e.g. the alps), so that it is a pity to do this. But you are probably right, when you say that we will always have to much (pictures near the realistic world) and that it is sometimes better to go for a compromise.

I don't know how to insert here one of those horrible pictures from an involved airport, but if you are interested, I can send you one by e-mail (and also another one from the alps).

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

You can use the Manage Attachments Button below the Replay Panel to add pictures

[KHKH]

Here are two pictures:

The first shows the Swiss Alps.

The second one shows the Apolo Airport in Bolivia, not so nice, isn't it?
The real altitude is 4642 ft. FSX placed it at 6561 ft, a difference of near 2000 ft.

Heinz

[scruffyduck]

No it's not. What do you see if you change the airport altitude to that of the ground? You could use TCalcX to get a spot altitude next to the runway. After that you might still need to create a new airport background polygon to flatten the area around the airport to the level of the ground

[KHKH]

Please I need a bit more explanations, what I have to do exactly.

I suppose TCalcX is a program. Where can I find it? If I understand correctly, I can change the airport altitude with this program to that of the ground. How do I create a new airport background polygon to flatten the area around the airport to the level of the ground? Can I do this with the same program (TCalcX)? Must I work with the default airport BGL file? Can I load it up with TCalcX? When I load it up, is it compiled the to a XML file, which I can compile again in BGL file, when I've finished with the necessary steps? A lot of questions, but as you know, I am not a developer and I have no knowledge as a programmer.

Thank you very much for your help. I hope so much now (and I am confident again) that we could resolve these problems.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Please I need a bit more explanations, what I have to do exactly.

I suppose TCalcX is a program. Where can I find it? If I understand correctly, I can change the airport altitude with this program to that of the ground. How do I create a new airport background polygon to flatten the area around the airport to the level of the ground? Can I do this with the same program (TCalcX)? Must I work with the default airport BGL file? Can I load it up with TCalcX? When I load it up, is it compiled the to a XML file, which I can compile again in BGL file, when I've finished with the necessary steps? A lot of questions, but as you know, I am not a developer and I have no knowledge as a programmer.

Thank you very much for your help. I hope so much now (and I am confident again) that we could resolve these problems.

Best regards, Heinz


TcalcX is a small utility that can accurately determine location parameters for the user aircraft in FSX. See this thread

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4273

It will not make any polygons but will help you to identify the ground altitude accurately. To create a new airport flatten you need to use a tool such as SBuilderX or FSX KML. The bgl file they create are separate from the airport file. You would need to make a second bgl file using one of these tools.

FSX KML works with Google Earth and might be the easier tool to use to create a new background. I am not really an expert in this area but you can check out about FSX KML here

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

As I understand it you need to make a polygon of the shape you need to cover the airport area and 'tag' it with the correct guid. I am pretty sure the FSX KML guys can tell you which one to use. I cannot promise it will work but it should change the altitude of the area of the polygon to flatten the ground around the airport better to that of the surrounding area.

[KHKH]

For some odd reasons TcalcX does not work on my PC. After starting TcalcX a message Microsoft.NET Framework appears and the program does'nt go on. This is mentionned in the thread included in your last message, but the step described in the thread to correct this does not help.

[scruffyduck]

Do you have the correct version of dotNET installed for TCalcX?

[KHKH]

I have Net Framework 2.0 Servicepack 1 installed.

[scruffyduck]

So you are saying that the error is not related to dotNET but that TCalcX cannot find the corrent version of SimConnect?

TCalcX uses the version of SimConnect that comes with the original version of FSX that comes on the DVD. There are actually three versions of SimConnect - the original (RTM) version, the one shipped with SP1 and the one shipped with SP2/Accel Pack

Sounds like the RTM version is missing from your system and if you try a reinstall from the latest version you may not put the original back.


If you look in your main windows folder and then in WinSxS you will see some folders beginning x86_Microsoft.FlightSimulator... There should be one there that matches the version of SimConnect you refer to.

[KHKH]

What I can see there is:

X86_MS.FS.Sim_Connect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.60905.0_x-ww_429211e9

and

X86_MS.FS.Sim_Connect_67c7c14424d61b5b_10.0.61424.0_x_ww_35e8ee9a

First I installed it from the DVD. Then I removed it and did a installation with SP1, because I have SP1 installed with my FSX. SP2 I have not installed.

[scruffyduck]

I am not sure what to suggest then since you seem to have the appropriate SimConnect Version. The only other easy option would be to use the default Cessna to determine the altitude next to the airport (I think you need to take 1 meter off whatever the altimeter says) - not quite so accurate and you might have to make some trial and error adjustments but at least you could see if you can get that airfield down to ground level

[KHKH]

The altitude of the ground next the airport is between 4760 an 4800 ft., whilst the airport altitude (runway) is 6561 ft. I determined it with the default Cessna, as you proposed in your last message.

I've also downloaded FSX KML.

I am not familiar with this program. I need now some times to learn how to work with it.

[KHKH]

After trying during the weekend I have to state that I am not able to create a new background with FSX KML an Google Earth. My knowledge is not good enough to work with these programs.

So there is nothing else for me at the moment as to accept these faults with so many airports (e.g. also Geneva in Switzerland) in FSX when using FS Global 2008.

[scruffyduck]

Have you tried asking for help in the FSX KML Forus at www.fsdeveloper.com ?

[KHKH]

No I did'nt.

It is difficult for me, because as I mentionned several times I have no knowledge as a developer or as a programmer. An other problem is that my English is not good enough to correctly understand everytime what you or sombody else really mean. For this reason it is also difficult for me to understand the manuals or the explanations given by clicking the help button of a program.

I had a contact with a guy who posted a zip.file (quitoflt.zip) by Avsim.com. With this file he corrected a same problem I have, but instead of airports with lakes. He also use FS Global 2008. He sent me a file with different programs (se below).


BLNMAKER – to create polygons

BLN2SHP – Change the polygon ASCII file to shape file

SHP2VEC – Change shape file to BGL scenery file

0_90_2624.zip is the software from Jon Masterson that allows changes on APX*.BGL files (p.ex: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Scenery\0304\scenery)


He also explained me the different steps to do (se below)


I read your mail just now. I'm in the work now, when I'll arrive at my home, I'll send to you a list of software necessary to correct wrong airports altitudes. It's so easy.

1) Find the correct altitude (FSX on slew mode and position the aircraft on the correct place. (The FSX normally shows on feet units)

2) Create a polygon around the elevation or hole (sometimes the problem is big holes)

3) Modify the BGL

4) Create a new BGL from the polygon (Flatten)

And it's ready to fly.


But you know it is not so easy as he says.

For instance when I doubleclick on BLNMarker.exe then I have a message who says:

FLNMarker has encountered a problem and have to be closed and then nothing happened.

Do you know these programs and do you have an idea, what could be the reason why I can't run BLNMarker on my computer? I don't know if the other two programs he sent me will work correctly, because the first step is with BLNMarker, and when I can't do the first step, I can't try to see if the other programs will work.

As you see, many problems and I am a little demoralized.

[scruffyduck]

Well I know one of the programs very well. 0_90_2624.zip is written by me.

I will make a suggestion. This may take a little while but perhaps it will work. I am currently working on some software that should work for the problems you are having. It is part of one of my utilities. It may take a few weeks to get it working but if you will wait then you can test this and see if it does what you want. Becasue it is my software I should be able to help you get it working for you.

[KHKH]

These are good news for me. Thank you very much.

It is not a problem for me to wait some weeks. What counts is, that finally my problems can be resolved.

Because there are so many views in the forum for this problem I am pretty sure that other persons who use FS Global 2008 are also interested in a solution for these problems.

[scruffyduck]

These are good news for me. Thank you very much.

It is not a problem for me to wait some weeks. What counts is, that finally my problems can be resolved.

Because there are so many views in the forum for this problem I am pretty sure that other persons who use FS Global 2008 are also interested in a solution for these problems.

OK leave it with me

[scruffyduck]

This is now in testing.

[KHKH]

Fine, thank you very much.

I am waiting for the test results.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Version 1.20 of Airport Design Editor is released today and contains the ability to handle flattens etc. Available at AVSIM or http://www.airportdesigneditor.co.uk

[KHKH]

I've downloaded the program and the three manuals.

Now first I will try to install and configurate the program.

Then I will study what I have to do exactly to resolve my problem. As you know, I will not create new airports but change existing airports in FSX which look strange when using FS Global 2008, because the original airport altitude datas are not correct in FSX.

I will inform you about the results. When I am not able to reach my goal, because my knowledge ist not good enough, I will ask you for your help again.

Thank you very much and best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

I've downloaded the program and the three manuals.

Now first I will try to install and configurate the program.

Then I will study what I have to do exactly to resolve my problem. As you know, I will not create new airports but change existing airports in FSX which look strange when using FS Global 2008, because the original airport altitude datas are not correct in FSX.

I will inform you about the results. When I am not able to reach my goal, because my knowledge ist not good enough, I will ask you for your help again.

Thank you very much and best regards, Heinz

Good luck Heinz and please ask any time you need help

[KHKH]

Hello Jon

I have installed and configurated ADE-Editor.

As you know I won't add any objects (parkings etc.) to existing airports at this moment. What I want is only to flatten these strange airports which are situated on a mountain or in a hole since I used FS Global 2008, because the altitude datas arn't correct in FSX.

Unfortunately I did'nt find in the manuals a description how to practice to achieve my goal.

So I need your help again.

To find an airport from the stock and to load it in ADE-Editor I've understood.

But then I dont know, how to continue to flatten the airport.

Please can you describe me in a detailed way the steps one by one I have to accomplish to flatten existing airports without to make other changes?

Is it necessary to replace the wrong altitude datas with the correct datas?

When latter is the case, how can I do this?

Do I need other programs or is it possible to do all these points with ADE-Editor?

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Hello Jon

I have installed and configurated ADE-Editor.

As you know I won't add any objects (parkings etc.) to existing airports at this moment. What I want is only to flatten these strange airports which are situated on a mountain or in a hole since I used FS Global 2008, because the altitude datas arn't correct in FSX.

Unfortunately I did'nt find in the manuals a description how to practice to achieve my goal.

So I need your help again.

To find an airport from the stock and to load it in ADE-Editor I've understood.

But then I dont know, how to continue to flatten the airport.

Please can you describe me in a detailed way the steps one by one I have to accomplish to flatten existing airports without to make other changes?

Is it necessary to replace the wrong altitude datas with the correct datas?

When latter is the case, how can I do this?

Do I need other programs or is it possible to do all these points with ADE-Editor?

Best regards, Heinz

You need to find the correct altitude that you want the airport at. You can do this n ADE. Run ADE and load up the airport from the stock airport list. Run FSX and connect ADE to FSX. Make sure you are in top down view. Move your user aircraft (in slew mode) to a point that has the altitude that you want your airport to be at. You can do this by using your mouse in ADE and right clicking near the airport and selecting Move Aircraft Here. Then slew around to make the final adjustments. In ADE there is a red display near the top left when you are connected to FSX - the last figure is ground altitude at the airport location. This is the value you need.

We discussed before that you need to create a special file containing just enough information to change the altitude of the airport to the value you have found above in FSX and place it so that it is read before the information in the default airport bgl file. You cannot do this in ADE at the moment but it just requires a small xml file to be created and compiled.


Next you need to exclude the original airport background as this is setting the airport height. This can be a bit tricky but in FSX the background is usually visible as a light green area- it may be surrounded by a fence. The rectangle you are creating needs to cut across the edge of the airport background. Select the Terrian Polygon tool and draw an approximate rectangle using your aircraft to determine corners that ensure you exclusion rectangle cuts across an edge of the airport background. Double click to finish the polygon and the properties dialog will open - in the top list select Exclude and in the bottom list Airport Backgrounds. Click OK - you should now have a blue rectangle that represents the exclusion.

Now create a new polygon that coverr the same area and shape as the original airport background that you should see in FSX. Slew you aircraft to each point on the perimeter and use the mouse in ADE to click over the aircraft symbol. At the last point doulb click to close the polygon. In the property dialog select Airport Background from the top list and Flatter Mask Class Map ExcludeAutogen from the bottom list. MOST IMPORTANT in the Alt. box enter the altitude you got at the start. Click OK to save the polygon. Close FSX. Now save your airport and compile it. You need to set the folder for compiling to one that is active in FSX - Maybe Addon Scenery/scenery.

Run FSX again and you should see a message that FSX is updating scenery database. If this does not showthen check where you saved the new airport files. If all is well and you have completed all the steps your airport should be at the new altitude. If any bits of it are still at the wrong altitude then we need to fix that individually - but see how this goes first

[KHKH]

I'm on the way.

I corrected my first airport (SLAP). But at the moment I'm not totally satisfied with the result. The problem, that the airport is situated on a mountain is resolved after my correction and that's great, but an important point is to find the real ground altitude to have a nice view then, because there are big differences depending where you place the aircraft on the ground around SLAP. An other point is to define the correct rectangle to exclude the original airport background. Here I have two questions: To do this, with which file I have to work in ADE, with the xml I created before or with the compiled bgl and what happend, when I define the rectangle with enough margin to be sure, that I have the whole background airport in?

Best regards, Heinz

[KHKH]

Hello Jon

I corrected Annemasse (LFLI) airport in France.

As you can see in the attached pictures (Annemassebefore is before my correction, Annemasseafter1 and 2 after my correction) the result is not ok. To do this correction I followed exactly your description you gave me.

I attache here also a manual from FS Global 2008. Please read it, then you know exactly the problem I am talking. You see also in the manual, that it is possible to correct this problem (example La Paz airport in Bolivia). But they don't explain in the manual the way to do this.

When you go to the FS Global 2008 website, there is a support. I asked there for help, but unfortunately I did not get an answer.

So you are still the only person at the moment who can help me. Thank you very much.

Best regards, Heinz

PS. I can't attache the manual, it is more than 20 KB. Please give me your E-mail adress, then I will send it by E-mail.

[scruffyduck]

I'm on the way.

I corrected my first airport (SLAP). But at the moment I'm not totally satisfied with the result. The problem, that the airport is situated on a mountain is resolved after my correction and that's great, but an important point is to find the real ground altitude to have a nice view then, because there are big differences depending where you place the aircraft on the ground around SLAP. An other point is to define the correct rectangle to exclude the original airport background. Here I have two questions: To do this, with which file I have to work in ADE, with the xml I created before or with the compiled bgl and what happend, when I define the rectangle with enough margin to be sure, that I have the whole background airport in?

Best regards, Heinz

You should have your airport loaded in ADE - so load either the stock airport or one you created. ADE should be able to load either xml or bgl. As I understand it the exclusion rectangle must CUT the airport boundary and not completely enclose it.

[scruffyduck]

Hello Jon

I corrected Annemasse (LFLI) airport in France.

As you can see in the attached pictures (Annemassebefore is before my correction, Annemasseafter1 and 2 after my correction) the result is not ok. To do this correction I followed exactly your description you gave me.

I attache here also a manual from FS Global 2008. Please read it, then you know exactly the problem I am talking. You see also in the manual, that it is possible to correct this problem (example La Paz airport in Bolivia). But they don't explain in the manual the way to do this.

When you go to the FS Global 2008 website, there is a support. I asked there for help, but unfortunately I did not get an answer.

So you are still the only person at the moment who can help me. Thank you very much.

Best regards, Heinz

PS. I can't attache the manual, it is more than 20 KB. Please give me your E-mail adress, then I will send it by E-mail.

jon AT scruffyduck.co.uk

[KHKH]

Did you receive the manual I sent by E-Mail?

When yes you can see in it, that it exits a way to correct these strange airports (example La Paz in Bolivia), the guys of FS Global 2008 added a file, which adapts the terrain to the wrong airport elevation in a smooth way. This correction works in FSX, La Paz airport looks well. Unfortunately they added only a file for La Paz and all the orther airports are not corrected.

I tried several times to create such a correction for different airports, but the result is piteous. The airports looks worse as before. I tried different ways, still the same bad result. Certainly I am doing a mistake, but I don't know, which one.

I think the best way for me is to find somebody who is familiar with this matter and lives where I live. So this person can come home to me and correct with me together one or two airports, so that I can see and note exactly the way to go.

Best regards, Heinz



What

[scruffyduck]

Yes I received the manual but I have not yet had time to look at it. Unfortunately it is difficult to help without the FS Global Scenery on my system asn I cannot see what you are seeing.

[KHKH]

FS Global 2008 changes the elevation of the Flight Simulator terrain, and nothing else. You must only have a look on chapter 8 of the manual, and then you will understand the problems. There are also pictures in chapter 8 to illustrate these problems.

Best regards, Heinz

[KHKH]

Hi Jon

I loaded airport FNLU (Luanda) from APX51350.bgl in FSX-Planner and changend the altitude. Then I compiled it and saved it back with the original file name (APX51350.bgl) in the original folder (FSX/0604/scenery).

Then I did in ADE what you explained me (first Exclude and airport background, then airport background and flatten with the corrected altitude).

Surprise for me. The airport view was corrected, before the correction the airport was in an hole, after the correction it looks very well.

But the problem now is:

In the original file APX51350.bgl are other airports included. When I saved back the corrected airport with the original file name to the original place, I've lost these other airports. I can't choose them in FSX any more. Before the correction I did a save from the original bgl.file outside of FSX, so I still have these other airports.

Do you have a proposition, how I can handle this in order to not loose these other airports?

When I save the corrected airport e.g. in Add-on scenery and I keep the original bgl.file in the original folder, the correction does not work.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Hi Jon

I loaded airport FNLU (Luanda) from APX51350.bgl in FSX-Planner and changend the altitude. Then I compiled it and saved it back with the original file name (APX51350.bgl) in the original folder (FSX/0604/scenery).

Then I did in ADE what you explained me (first Exclude and airport background, then airport background and flatten with the corrected altitude).

Surprise for me. The airport view was corrected, before the correction the airport was in an hole, after the correction it looks very well.

But the problem now is:

In the original file APX51350.bgl are other airports included. When I saved back the corrected airport with the original file name to the original place, I've lost these other airports. I can't choose them in FSX any more. Before the correction I did a save from the original bgl.file outside of FSX, so I still have these other airports.

Do you have a proposition, how I can handle this in order to not loose these other airports?

When I save the corrected airport e.g. in Add-on scenery and I keep the original bgl.file in the original folder, the correction does not work.

Best regards, Heinz

Unfortunately you should not do what you did. Modifying a default APX file will almost certainly cause the problem you found. Any of ADE, FSX Planner of AFX will only load one airport from the file and, as you found, saving it back will lose all the other airports in that folder.

The only safe method is to create a special airport header Bgl file with the corrected altitude and place that in the scenery file structure so that it is read before the default Bgl file. I thought we had talked about how to do this but maybe we haven't. We are adding a safe way to do it in ADE but it is not ready yet.

[KHKH]

Yes we talked about that I have to put the new bgl.file with the corrected altitude in a folder who is read before the original folder. But when I do this (e.g. in Add-on scenery) the correction does not work. For this reason I tried to do it in the original place and it works. When it is not the Add-on scenery folder, which other folder is it then?

Best regards, Heinz

[KHKH]

I've found the folder, it's world scenery, and IT WORKS. You mentionned this folder very early in our discussion.

With your help, I've found the way to correct these strange airport views when using FS Global 2008.

Yon, many many thanks to you for the patience you had with me. But now I'm happy.

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

I've found the folder, it's world scenery, and IT WORKS. You mentionned this folder very early in our discussion.

With your help, I've found the way to correct these strange airport views when using FS Global 2008.

Yon, many many thanks to you for the patience you had with me. But now I'm happy.

Best regards, Heinz

Well I am very pleased that you have found a way to solve this problem

[KHKH]

Here I am again.

The correction of the wrong aiport altitude does only work 100% when the ground altitude on both runway end is similar. This is the case with the Luanda airport I corrected. When the ground altitude is different between the two runway ends, and this is the case by many airports, the correction does not work 100%. When I fix the airport altitude to the higher ground altitude, one end looks well and match with the ground altitude, but the other end is on a mountain, when I fix the airport altitude to the lower ground altitude one end is in a hole.

Do you have a solution for this?

Best regards, Heinz

[scruffyduck]

Here I am again.

The correction of the wrong aiport altitude does only work 100% when the ground altitude on both runway end is similar. This is the case with the Luanda airport I corrected. When the ground altitude is different between the two runway ends, and this is the case by many airports, the correction does not work 100%. When I fix the airport altitude to the higher ground altitude, one end looks well and match with the ground altitude, but the other end is on a mountain, when I fix the airport altitude to the lower ground altitude one end is in a hole.

Do you have a solution for this?

Best regards, Heinz

There is no real solution. FSX requires flat airports. This is what the Airport Background polygon is used for - to create a flat area on which to place the airport runways and so on. It is a matter of experiment to get the altitude that looks best in each situation.

[KHKH]

Hi Jon

Thank you very much for your answer.

Best regards, Heinz

[crucialsix]

Hi all

Is there any easy way to do the same thing in FS2004?
I spent half a day with AFCAD and different ways of flattening and excluding only to find out that the flattening I put over an "airport in a hole" isn't solid, and AFCAD somehow doesn't really work for altering stock airports.

thanks

tom


btw: I see the last posts first... where can I switch this around?

[scruffyduck]

To answer the second question first - No I have never seen things work that way around and I've done a quick check of the options but can't find anything. Maybe one of the admin can help.

As to your first question I'm sorry but it is not clear to me what you are asking. Is this a question about flattens and excludes in FS9? AFCAD does not provide any way to flatten and area.

[crucialsix]

ok. I've got FS Global 2008 too, which is basically a high resolution mesh for the whole world.
the problem is, some of the stock airports are considerably higher or lower than the surrounding area.

for example there's a strip called "brach" in libya (HL0S) at a stock-altitude of around 1060 feet - which fits into the stock-surrounding.

now with FS global, the surrounding is at about 1480 feet... and therefore the stock-airport lies in a deep hole.

I tried to exclude the airport with an "exclude" in the scenery.cfg. worked so far. no strip anymore.

I flattened the hole with a "flatten" in the scenery.cfg. worked. no hole anymore. I can taxi over it... it's solid.

(by the way, I'm looking for a program to easily make flattens and excludes in bgl-format... I don't like the ones in the scenery.cfg)

now the worse part:

I alter the airport in AFCAD, set the general parameters to 1480 feet (or whatever the flatten was) and the runway too. I even add a taxi-way under the runway to make sure it doesn't disappear.

No when I launch a flight, everything LOOKS fine, but neither the flatten nor the runway are solid: I fall into the old hole... and on its ground lies the taxiway (if I added one).

this is so weird. I think it's AFCAD, though. because even when I delete the ap*****.bgl file with this airport from the stock-scenery, I get the hole when I add the altered copy.

[scruffyduck]

You are falling into the old hole because the altitude of an airport is set in the stock file. FS reads the first altitude it comes across and uses that. Setting the altitude in AFCAD is not going to work. If you want to force a change in altitude you need to create a small pre-load bgl file that contains the airport basic details and the new altitude - this is placed in the Global Scenery Folder. Are you working with FS9 or FSX?

[crucialsix]

FS9.

I see where you're coming from, but after excluding the airport and flattening, the area looks ok, and there's no (hidden) hole. only when I add an airport again (read an altered copy of the stock airport) the hole is back there, although covered by a non-solid runway.

[scruffyduck]

FS9.

I see where you're coming from, but after excluding the airport and flattening, the area looks ok, and there's no (hidden) hole. only when I add an airport again (read an altered copy of the stock airport) the hole is back there, although covered by a non-solid runway.

What is the altitude of the modified airport set at?

[crucialsix]

as I mentioned: stock is around 1060, new one is about 1480.

[scruffyduck]

OK but have you modified any of the surrounding mesh or made flattens to level the airport to the ground or vice versa?

[crucialsix]

- I have FS Global 2008, which are very accurate meshes for the whole world. This is installed.

--> ground around that airstrip is higher than stock.

- I did an exclude around the stock airport
- I flattened the area to a level similar to the altitude of the mesh (1480 ft).

--> no airport shows in FS (just as wanted). I have a flat, empty area at 1480 ft. so far so good.

- I altered the stock airport with AFCAD, i.e. made a copy of it, changed the general attributes from 1060 ft (or so) to 1480 and also the runway from 1060 to 1480.

--> FS shows the airstrip at 1480 ft, everything looks ok, but if I want to land I sink thru the runway into the old hole down to 1060 ft.

That's about it.

I also decompiled the ap951220.blg file (which contains this airport according to AFCAD) with bglxml, altered all the 1060 ft entries to 1480... ... and couldn't compile it back. even the unaltered xml-file won't compile back. don't know if it's because of bglxml or bglcomp. :confused:


oh yeah: I can also throw away this ap951220.bgl, so I lose 4 or 5 airports including the one I want to change the altitude of. if I then add the airport created by afcad, I end up with the same problem... so it seems afcad doesn't change an important altitude value somewhere.

EDIT: last paragraph is not correct. I just did this again and added a big apron polygon around the airport (and the hole). result: works. so basically flattening and creating an airport works - afcad is not the problem. but as soon as I throw the ap951220.bgl back to where it belongs (in order to still have the other airports), I end up having problems again.

[scruffyduck]

EDIT: last paragraph is not correct. I just did this again and added a big apron polygon around the airport (and the hole). result: works. so basically flattening and creating an airport works - afcad is not the problem. but as soon as I throw the ap951220.bgl back to where it belongs (in order to still have the other airports), I end up having problems again.

You have the problem because FS takes the airport altitude from the FIRST file containing the airport data that it reads and not the last (which is the case for everything else at an airport). The only way to get around this is to make a small bgl file containing just bassic airport information. This is an example of what the needed xml looks like


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<FSData
version="9.0"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="bglcomp.xsd">
<Airport
country="United States"
state="Florida"
city="Clermont"
name="Hi-Acres"
lat="28.47861439"
lon="-81.71451956"
alt="35.0M"
magvar="3"
ident="12FA"
>
</Airport>
</FSData>

The compiled Bgl file needs to go in a high priority folder like Scenery\World\Scenery so it gets read before the APnnnnnn.bgl file is

[crucialsix]

:):):):):)

YESSSSS!!!

ok, that works. had to tweak (format) it a bit, but it did the trick. great. thank you so much.

by the way: is there an easy to use (maybe fsuipc linked) flattening-tool, that creates bgl files? I don't like these entries in the scenery.cfg?

or how would an xml with a flattening code look like?

cheers

[scruffyduck]

In FS9 you can make these using SBuilder

[crucialsix]

I already downloaded it a few days ago. Seems I need a help file - can't seem to figure it out myself.

[scruffyduck]

I already downloaded it a few days ago. Seems I need a help file - can't seem to figure it out myself.

There are some tutorials on my main web site www.scruffyduckscenery.co.uk