Just one word regarding ATC

[heyer]

VATSIM (http://www.vatsim.net)

[Piper_Pilot]

It's a great community and I love flying on VATSIM, but the traffic and ATC volume are on the low side.

[heyer]

>It's a great community and I love flying on VATSIM, but the
>traffic and ATC volume are on the low side.

I prefer quality over quantity. And I prefer real human beeings vectoring me into final instead of an artificial computer algorithm.

I want to have my flightplans checked and approved, I want clearence delivery, I want apron control, I want the tower, I want departure and approach controllers, I want the director, I want radar, I want to be connected to other human beeings piloting their aircraft around me and I want to be able to talk to all of them using my voice. All of the above I get from VATSIM (and formerly from SATCO) for years but hardly ever from an application

[jcmissionary]

Initially, I said that Vatsim was overrated. I should be more clear than just using one word.

IF you're willing to customize your schedule to Vatsim's concerning flyins and whatnot, then yes, Vatsim is light years ahead of MS ATC. However, in my experience, Vatsim's coverage is sorely lacking. For example, if I wanted to fly from KSLC to KSEA right now, I would be on my own the whole flight, and essentially the whole country turns into an uncontrolled airfield, with pilots having to give position reports and coordinating approaches. Not so realistic. If you want to talk with other people, cool. But it's hardly like the real world.

As I said, if you've got the coverage, it's great. But more often then not, when using Vatsim, I've found myself pretty lonely.

[link:www.dreamfleet2000.com|http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/Forum_Banners/DF_BANNER_FORUM_HOWELL.jpg]
PPL-ASEL
Instrument Rated
http://172pilot.blogspot.com

[madtun]

Last I heard the simulator will still be in the $50US dollars range. I would pay more for all of that but MS gives you a choice and add-on developers a job. Someone will have all this in a payware package.

[Machtuck410]

You could always go fly a real aircraft on a real IFR flight;)

[desertflyer]

Careful J.C. you don't want to rile the true believers.

[erict]

nonsense

If I want to fly into Singapore with full ATC coverage and heavy traffic it will never happen on VATSIM or IVAO for that matter.

[heyer]

>If I want to fly into Singapore with full ATC coverage and
>heavy traffic it will never happen on VATSIM or IVAO for that
>matter.

So why don't you just fly where the ATC coverage is? I.e. yesterday evening (1930 Zulu) I flew from Hamburg, Germany (EDDH) to Copenhagen, Denmark (EKCH) via the VATSIM network with a total fo 639 pilots and controllers online. There was "Hamburg Ground", "Hamburg Tower", "Hamburg Approach", "Bremen Radar", "Copenhagen Control", "Copenhagen Approach" and "Copenhagen Tower" online during this 45 minutes flight. Real people, real voices, really good. That's what I call coverage, that's what I'm considering "as real as it gets"...

[Piper_Pilot]

You know, I wouldn't mind paying for a service like VATSIM if we had coverage all over the world. Of course the fee might be high.

[xiphanopoulous]

>So why don't you just fly where the ATC coverage is? I.e.
>yesterday evening (1930 Zulu) I flew from Hamburg, Germany
>(EDDH) to Copenhagen, Denmark (EKCH) via the VATSIM network
>with a total fo 639 pilots and controllers online. There was
>"Hamburg Ground", "Hamburg Tower", "Hamburg Approach", "Bremen
>Radar", "Copenhagen Control", "Copenhagen Approach" and
>"Copenhagen Tower" online during this 45 minutes flight. Real
>people, real voices, really good. That's what I call coverage,
>that's what I'm considering "as real as it gets"...

Perhaps I don't want to be constratined to fly where VATSIM is controlling. Sometimes I feel like flying to Tokyo. Other times I feel like flying JFK-ATL. Other times I feel like SFZ-DXR (two small GA airports in the northeastern US that will never see active ATC service online). More likely than not, VATSIM isn't going to be covering those areas at the times that I'm available to fly them.

I always start from the last airport that I landed at (unless I'm doing a test flight or otherwise just messing around) - I think that that adds a lot of realism to the whole thing, and that makes being in the same place as the sessions difficult. I have to plan out when I'm going to fly to where in advance (sometimes even a week in advance), and I don't have the flexibility to always be flying in places where there is ATC.

VATSIM is great for some things, but there are many occasions where I find it pretty much useless.

-Xiph.

[desertflyer]

Michael,
This discussion is as old as the hills. How would you feel if you went to play a round of golf, and the starter tells you that only holes 1-5 are available. Next day you go to play and you get sent out on 11-15. Why on earth would you play that course again when you never got to do all 18 holes and the guy in charge told you to just play what was open and be happy with it.

Vatsim obviously suits you and a lot of people. Please don't make it sound better than it really is. There will always be a place for people who want a real voice, but I suspect the vast majority want to fly when they want, where they want and the Microsoft ATC will continue to improve.

True believers are quick to point out faults of the default ATC, but take a look in the other forum when someone makes a comment. They get told to go to the Vatsim forum. Sounds like a case of trying to sweep trouble under the carpet.

[bjratchf]

NY App will control DXR for you, but treat it as an uncontrolled field (as if the tower were closed and it goes to class E airspace). They'll give you an off time/void time and an initial heading and altitude. The only other thing DXR tower would give would be Josh* saying "contact new york now 126.40"

*Hats off to Josh, one of DXR's best controllers (real life)
__________________
Wer Rechtschreibfehler findet darf sie behalten!