Tutorial about landing with FMC? (And my opinion about the crap FMC manual...)

[hellogoodbye]

It's a shame the tutorial ends with a manual landing.

I get to know the FMC a bit now. I usually plan the flight in the FS planner, and then import it. By now I know how to get the FMC programmed in such a way that it takes me all the way to my destination. No problem. Although sometimes spd automatically takes over from vanv. But anyway, when I'm near the airport things go wrong.

I'd like to get at the transition point slow and low. But I cannot get that done well. I tried to input this on various screens but nothing really works. I also frequently go down to low. I also am a bit confused about the ILS and FMC. Can I let the FMC do all the work and intercept the loc and g/s? If yes, how? Do I have to press APP and when? Things like that. Do I manually habe to descent the plane by changing the alt? Or can I plan that in the FMC? Things like that...

I keep saying the FMC manual is far from complete... It would be VERY NICE if someone could write/edit the tutorial in such a way, that it shows you a flight from A to B completely done using the FMC.

I took a look at the WILCO manual: now that looks a lot better: from that one I learned to set the EHSI to map to see the plan. Maybe DF should take a look at that manual and edit their own one. I'm not the first with questions about the FMC manual, so clearly something is wrong with it.

[Hakan_Olsson]

Hi

First of all: Don't compare or mix up Wilco's 767 with GA 737 since the FMC:s in the real world planes doesn't work in the same way.

Concerning APP mode:
Yes you have to take some manual action before you can select APP mode. The FMC will take you to the ILS intercept point without problems but you have to make sure that the nav1 are tuned at the correct ILS frequency and that it is in manual mode before you press the APP button.

You should also make sure that you intercept the glide slope from below, for instance 3000ft AGL at 10-12 miles out.

If you wan't to make an auto-landing be sure that both nav radios are tuned at the same frequency, select APP mode and make aure that both A and B channels are selected on the A/P.

Another tip: If you program the FMC and engage VNAV and LNAV but not the A/P and fly the aircraft manually from A to B only using the excellent flight director you will soon get the hang of it.

There is no way that you can get the 737 from A to B automaticallly. If you want to do that I can only recommend that you buy some 737 flightdeck videos put them in your VCR and press the play button. Then you can lean back and watch :-)

Best,
Hakan

[ilh]

Hmm. Insulting the manual author(s) with "crap manual" will really get you a lot of help.

Anyways, no, the FMC cannot do everything for an ILS autoland. At some point, generally before localizer intercept you will have to at least take control of speed with the MCP. You'll need to step the speed down and apply flaps when appropriate. Still, the autothrottle and VOR/LOC and APP will do almost all the work.

If you really want absolutely everything automatic, why not get a movie? :-)

Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

[paulcbenoitus]

Hellogoodbye,

1st .. ilh's comments about insulting anything on this or other forums are very correct ... it is obvious you are frustrated, but think twice about insulting people ... who write tutorials and manuals. I'll take a minute or two to see if I can help because I found all of thie extremely confusing once.

Try this ... a short flight from New York LaGuardia KLGA to Boston KBOS ... no ATC just a flight. Simple flight plan ... no frills,
1. in ms flight planner .. klga .. bdr ... mad ... pvd .. kbos
2. load FMC with that flight plan, do a departure runway from KLGA .. choose whatever you like .., do an ARRival runway of ILS Runway 4R. fix up any discontinuities .. you now have a nice plan from nyc to boston with an initial fix of 12 miles out from runway 4R (almost WINNI intersection). Go to the LEGS page, and set the crossing altitude for the 12 mile initial fix to 3500 ft (/3500) ... this means that you want to cross the fix at 3500 feet.
3. finish your preflight ... set altitude for FL290, make sure you ACTIVATE and EXEC the perf and route.
4. Take off and get to cruise altitude. When appropriate LVAV, VNAV and AP. This is a short flight so you won't be far from t/d.
5. Set your Nav radios to 110.3 and the course to 036, make sure the radios are in MAN manual mode.
6. When the FMC tells you to RESET MCP ALT .. set it to 3500ft.
7. Sit back and watch things unfold ... at t/d the throttles will RETARD and the descent will begin. VNAV should descent you to 3500 feet at the initial fix 12 miles out from rw4r. Uaually at 10000 feet in the descent I switch to V/S so I can control the speed .. and you should do this also... so that you arrive at the initial fix at 3500 feet and 180 knots ..
8. When you are about a mile or so from the fix .. the localizer and glideslope indicators will be alive .. press the APP button and press the other AP btton (both AP buttons should be lit) ... VORLOC should be annunciated immediately in green and G/S should appear in white.
9. you now need to slow to 160, deploy flaps, determine landing ref speed, etc.
10. When the glideslope indicator begins to move down, continue to slow to the landing speed and deploy flaps accordingly, as the glideslope indicator approaches the middle, drop the gear .. as it hits the middle ... you should begin the long slow descent down the glideslope G/S will now be GREEN and there should be a FLARE in WHITE.

That's really it .. wait and wait and at 27 feet radio height the throttles should go to idle, the plane will flare a bit and you will thump onto the runway ... you immediately need be in control of the steering and immediately deploy reversers ... at 80 stow the reversers ... and finish manually braking.

Having said all of that .. there are some people who have trouble with the MSFS glideslope .. who knows why .. it's not a DF problem .. so my recommendation is to disengage the autopilot at about 500 feet and fly the plane to the touchdown.

If you follow this forum carefully you need to note that autoland is not used often in the real world .. and the 737 AP will get you to the ground but you need to be in total control on the ground because that's it (unlike the 747 which follows the runway centerline .. because in addition to FLARE it also has a ROLLOUT mode)

O well .. I took the time to do this, because I can understand your frustration ... it took me quite a while to learn the DF737 .. only by reading over and over and practicing can you get this right ... Elmar's tutorial helped me "turn the corner" and with the tutorial in the Getting Started are both excellent ... but you have to understand how to fly the thing first ... and understand the automatics .. The FMC will get you from point to point but you need to press a button or two and handle flaps and speed for it to work.

I am sure there are others who have their own particular way to do things ... but this is ONE little suggestion on a sunday morning ... good luck

Paul Benoit
kbos

[Lou_Betti]

As I said, we will only tolerate so much here, and use use of the word "crap" in the subject line, sends this post into the archive.

I'm not kidding, if you cannot post in a courteous and respectful manner here, then your post is history.

Regards,
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