View Full Version : Another FMC Question
01-03-2002, 02:21 PM
How do the V/B, and V/S displays work on the DES page? I know
what they are supposed to do, but they never work. Why is this? Since I fly for Southwest I don't use VNAV. Does VNAV have to be engaged to have the V/B and V/S displays work?
01-03-2002, 02:33 PM
Southwest pilots aren't allowed to use VNAV??? Huh??
01-03-2002, 02:40 PM
No, because we do not use the A/T
01-03-2002, 04:33 PM
Wow... why not?
01-03-2002, 05:22 PM
Because of High maintenance costs resulting from use of the A/T
01-03-2002, 05:34 PM
Or perhaps they're trying to stay alive in the currently harsh aviation climate.
01-03-2002, 08:20 PM
That's interesting. So, is the A/T system itself expensive to maintain.....or does it cause additional maintanence on other items (engines, etc.)?
01-03-2002, 08:24 PM
Surely it would cost more not to use it. I imagine it can ease work load and maintain certain speeds far more accurately than a pilot without suffering any fatigue! This is a strange one indeed.
01-03-2002, 08:44 PM
low fairs airlines are seeing a real boost in passenger numbers, atleast in the UK anyway. I think Southwest is a low fairs airline ?
01-03-2002, 10:09 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-02 AT 11:05PM (EDT)[p]"Surely it would cost more not to use it"
:-lol Yeah, and there's a bridge I would like to sell you that connects Manhattan with Brooklyn!
Even my friend, Eric Ernst, has told me many times how often he has had to shut off the AT because it goes crazy trying to correct for speed; he finds it easier to do it manually! Not to mention shutting down VNAV when the pilots look at each other and say "what's it doing now?" :-lol
I was on a BA 744 last March, in the cockpit. The AT had failed shortly after take off. The captain was talking to me about my camera, while the FO was keeping himself busy playing with the throttles seeing if he could keep the the ship at .85 mach. Fatigue? Hardly, more like fighting boredom! The captain is looking at the ice off Greenland and comments to me "looks like a ship down there". I look and say, "no it's just a shadow". "Yeah, you're right", he says. The FO chats along with us, being happy to have something to do rather than looking at shadows on the ice!
Hey, AirbusAces, care to post a copy of your pilots license for all of us to see. You are obviously a real "expert". :-lol
Ya' know, I get a kick out of threads like this, as though VNAV were some "God send". The fact of the matter is, real pilots can fly all of these procedures by hand (sids, stars, approaches), so what is the big deal if an airline decides to rely on the ablities of their pilots, rather than automation?
For some reason, in flight simulation we deal in fantasy land, where everyone autolands, automation is expected to be "perfect" (now there's a real joke) and some "pilots" have no basic flying skills. The FMC and AFDS has taken the place of basic flying skills, how very sad.
AirbusAces, I have seen your posts trashing Dreamfleet at other forums, and now I take you to task, and ask you to reveal your real pilot credentials and qualifications. So far it would appear that based on what you say, if you cannot fly with automation then you cannot fly a plane! :-lol
You're asking me about our Airbus, and them flaming us at other forums, and insinuating that we cannot do a good Airbus. What in Heaven's name do you know about Airbus? Care to show us your type rating?
Go ahead, flame me, then we'll whip out our pilots licenses and ratings and trade real flying stories, and that will settle things real quickly.
The biggest problem in FS today is "perception of reality" rather than reality itself.
Sorry, but every once in a while I have to tell it like it is. Please forgive me.
Is not ANYONE aware of the fact that there are many 727s, 737s, 747s, L-1011s, DC-10s, and the like being flown day to day without VNAV and autoland. Some do not even have LNAV, some do not have an AT!
Believe it or not, one of the things necessary to receive a pilots license in real life is being able to prove you can fly a plane, not program automation to do it for you. That comes much later, provided you sre skillful and lucky enough to get to that point. Otherwise you are stuck doing it yourself, without all the bells and whistles. Yes, perhaps some day all planes will be "robo planes" but not just yet.
Makes me look forward to the 727; no VNAV, LNAV or autoland, and only those who know how to fly a plane (real or virtual) need buy it.
As a real pilot, who paid his dues flying many years for real, I take great offense at posts that attempt to tell folks that automation is necessary to pilot a plane; that is an insult to those of us who can do it for real, or those who can do it virtually.
Are you a programmer or a pilot? Automation is a luxury, that bean counters happen to love, nothing more, nothing less. Automation does not a pilot make, not by a long shot.
Sorry folks, but I'm only human, and can only take so much of this nonsense without speaking out.
01-03-2002, 11:56 PM
Doggone it, Lou. I really hate it when you hold back like that. Why don't you just spit it out, man. :-lol
Jeff S KDTW
01-04-2002, 05:52 AM
Hey Lou, how are the Martinis?? :-lol
>>Makes me look forward to the 727; no VNAV, LNAV or autoland, and only those who know how to fly a plane (real or virtual) need buy it.
You know Lou, as soon as the 727 is released, we will have some post that is complaining that the autoland was VERY HARD!!! ;-) :-lol
Take care, buddy. :-wave
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01-04-2002, 07:55 AM
Well said Lou.
Here's an idea. Bound to upset most though ;-)
When you release your next all-singing, dancing package with the fancy-schmancy options; AT, VNAV, LNAV & FMC, these should all be unavailable on initial install. Included in the package are a series of checkrides to test everything from basic pilot skills; navigation, radio, fuel management etc finishing off with IMC landings. Only when you are capable of completing & passing all of these should the package then 'unlock' the advanced options. After all, nobody can run before they've learnt to walk ...
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01-04-2002, 09:25 AM
You are right I donít have a CPL or ATPL but a 'humble' PPL, well I sent my log book off to the CAA and I'm just waiting on the return now. I've got my licence number if you want it.
I most certainly didn't flame your 737, although I pointed out in the PIC forum that problems were cropping up 'every other day' I would hardly call this a flame. Are opinions not allowed now or atleast negative ones that don't conform?
I also don't know of any major airline in the UK/EU land that doesnít use A/T if they can use it. Maybe that's what I based my response on.
And letís get this straight, flying manually in the real world is fun, but you go to understand if youíre flying a 737/A320 with peopleís lives in the back I would think that A/T would be a good thing, at least inter-continental routes in the EU. It would indeed ease workload; maybe not on a marathon 15hour flight though.
Anyway, I have no real experience of the 'heavies' just what I read, my post above was mearly my opinion and I've got to say that the 'FMC and AFDS ' have not taken place of basic flying skills. Any pilot in the airlines starts with a PPL, flying spam cans and you have got fly them, they wonít fly you. At my local flying club there are one or two commercial guys. GA flying is fun, but so is automated heavy flying.
Anyway I think your response was good, getting it all of your chest and such. Although I'll try not to rise above.
01-05-2002, 06:26 PM
I always read posts in this forum about problems with your Dream Fleet 737 software, and to tell you the truth, i've NEVER been more satisfied with a product that this.. I fly 5 or 6 times a week, KMIA, KATL, SVMI, KJFK, KBOS 2/3 hour flights... I think I should be one of those users that have changed almost EVERYTHING to make my expirience more realistic.. I use Nav 3.0, Radar Contact v2.2, Jon Gibbs Heads Up Display, FsMeteo, Fsweather Display, I even changed the original dreamfleet model with the default fs2002 .mdl file... I have tweaked views, lights, used the FMC, read the ENTIRE operations manual EVERYTHING, so I consider myself using the product at a 100%
Well.. maybe 90% and never EVER a single lockup... just wondeful... guys, If you experience lookups or strange behaviors in your programs don't blame the software. I have not rebooted my PC like in 45 days now :) apart of being a flight sim enthusiasts i'm also A hardcore gamer, so I always like my PC's fast and ROCK STABLE (I even have my PC overclocked from 700 to 933) so... better check your voltages, drivers, make sure you have a healthy PC, good Power Supply ESPECIALLY A GOOD POWER SUPPLY believe or not it is the most single important and always forgoten piece of equioment in your PC...
Now, if for some reason somebody is not 'satisfied' with the level of realism you are getting, may I ask:
Do you have:
Radar Contact, FsMeteo, nav 3.0, A Fuel Planner, Load Manager. Do you always plan and print Everything before flying? I *think* i'm a hardcore simmer.. I've 15 years using flight simulator, and again, NEVER, EVER I was so satisfied with a product. This is the most impresive, realistic, wonderful and inmersive experience money can buy... It costs less than $50 and man, When I read Lou saying someone was bashing dreamfleet my blood got at EGT levels in 4 secs..
01-05-2002, 11:28 PM
LAST EDITED ON Jan-05-02 AT 11:32PM (EDT)[p]actually autothrottles are a fuel savings device, when working properly. We use AT and VNAV and LNAV to the max extent possible, when you fly 4, 5, and 6 legs a day, it helps you get through the day. VNAV is a godsend and its use today, along with the FMC and AFDS, ARE basic flying skills. Way back when they use to say "ONLY low skill pilots use VOR's back in the days off DR navigation.
Yes you better be able to do without it, we all can, but you better know how to use it too or your not getting your type rating.
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