When should you get "dirty"?

[sehender1]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-02 AT 04:44PM (EDT)[p]question for real pilots - 737 and otherwise.

i love simming but have never piloted a plane for real. (someday, i may try it.)
anyway, i'm really into simming and try to emulate proper procedures for whatever aircraft i'm using. (not because i think this is real, but because it makes the whole thing a lot more challenging.)

along those lines, in the 737, when should you get "dirty", under normal landing conditions? full flaps, gear down?

this is how i've been doing it in the DF737. feel free to correct where i go wrong.

i turn onto final (match up with localizer) at about 180-190 degrees, flaps 1 or 2 depending on fuel load. i drop speed down to about 150 as i hit the glideslope (slope, right? not scope?), lower gear and add a notch to flaps 5.

on the way down i continue to bleed airspeed, adding flaps to 30 or 40 according to minimum speeds. i'm not fully "dirty" until I'm say three miles out, about 140 IAS.
is this even close to realistic? you add flaps to maintain lift and maneuverability as speed drops, right?

just wondering...

[AirbusAces]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-02 AT 04:50PM (EDT)[p]I thought you meant actual dirt at first :-lol, WOW this guy wants perfection ! :-lol

[Jeff S KDTW]

Stephen-

>along those lines, in the 737,
>when should you get "dirty",
>under normal landing conditions? full
>flaps, gear down?

Well, as you can imagine, this will vary depending on conditions, weights, policy issues, etc., but generally speaking, a good gauge for extending gear is when you are one dot below the glideslope (yes, glideslope :-)). That is, when the indicator on the EHSI is one dot above center. This is a good time to drop the gear and add a notch of flaps, since it will serve to initially slow the plane just as the a/p captures the glideslope and begins descending.

>
>this is how i've been doing
>it in the DF737. feel
>free to correct where i
>go wrong.
>
>i turn onto final (match up
>with localizer) at about 180-190
>degrees, flaps 1 or 2
>depending on fuel load. i
>drop speed down to about
>150 as i hit the
>glideslope (slope, right? not scope?),
>lower gear and add a
>notch to flaps 5.
>
>on the way down i continue
>to bleed airspeed, adding flaps
>to 30 or 40 according
>to minimum speeds. i'm not
>fully "dirty" until I'm say
>three miles out, about 140
>IAS.
>is this even close to realistic?
>you add flaps to maintain
>lift and maneuverability as speed
>drops, right?

[b]Well, you're close, but lets walk through a couple things. First, you are intercepting the localizer at a good speed (anywhere from 180-210). Make sure you are at least 12 nm miles out, 15-20 is even better. :-)

Begin bleeding off speed and maintain flap deployment based on your speed. From your example, you are grossly behind in your application of flaps (150 with 5 degrees). Try the following schedule, based on your landing weight.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c2fc2163b18288c.jpg

Hope this helps and have fun.

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[sehender1]

Thanks, Jeff!
my delayed flap deployment may explain why sometimes the thing seems to sink more than i'd like! lol!

i'm printing out your chart, though, and i'll use that as a guide from now on..

[Fortress]

Hi,

With respect to Capt. Mike Ray: regarding flap deployment during approach he said somthing like "it ain't no sin to drag it in" - it's sometimes better to get slow and dirty early in the approach than aim for a perfect approach profile.

Cheers
Paul

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.haworth/Fortress.gif

[ilh]

A technique that yields something pretty close to the chart is to watch the yellow warning for flaps on the PFD's speed tape. As it gets 80% of the way to the top, put in the next notch of flaps.

Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

[MZagoren]

This might help to... :)

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c33c64f588d981d.jpg

Matt Zagoren

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3c33c67959210165.jpg

[turbinepilot]

It will usually depend on weight weather and ATC. But a good rule is to be configured for landing (landing flaps set and gear down) prior to reaching the Final Approach Fix. This way you dont have to do any adjusting when you start your timers for a missed approach. It is easier to keep a constant spped this way all the way to the Missed Approach Point.

I have had real world ATC keep me at 180 knots until the Outer Marker. It's fun, try it...

[sehender1]

yes! i hear that all the time on real-world ATC ( i listen to DFW and JFK quite often). When approach clears to final, the last thing they often say is maintain 180 to the marker. i hear it an awful lot at DFW... i assume this is to keep traffic moving nicely.

i haven't tried it in the game yet, but maybe i will for kicks..
it would be weird, though, to already be on glideslope at 180 and then have to configure to land. talk about a busy last few miles!

[ilh]

I've had this happen on occasion flying on VATSIM (180 to OM) into KATL. It does make those last few miles more exciting! :-)

Lee Hetherington (KBOS)

[KevinAu]

Descending down a slope at 180kts and waiting until crossing the marker to dirty up as ATC often instructs you to is actually a lot easier than those training profiles illustrated above. In the training profiles where you are level and changing configuration as you intercept the glideslope requires good timing to minimize your workload since you are trying to hold level flight one minute as you dirty up and then setting up a descent the next minute. Doing all that as you are already sliding down the slope is a lot easier since all you have to do is chop the power, drop wheels and the rest of the flaps, and then just let all that slow you down while all you have to do is keep the slope. It's a bit less work and a bit less exciting.