View Full Version : Autopilot/Glidescope/Announcements
12-18-2001, 03:55 PM
Thank you for all the responses and I do not wish to labour
the problems with the auto glidescope when the product is just
magnificent but, it is being spoiled by the fact that the
aircraft will not follow the glideslope. It is as far as my
experience has been not true to say that FS2002 glideslope
landings are hit and miss. They work perfectly with all the
other aircraft I have in the programme!! Whatever I try, the
aircraft will roughly follow the lateral locator but as soon
as the glidslope is turned on the aircraft lands very well
short of every runway. I fully know that one can land manually
and I do but, the real aircraft does land in auto and there
must be a reason why this is the only aircraft I have that
does not. I`m not talking autolands either, just following
the glidescope to about 200 ft when i land manually anyway.
Any more suggestions crew??
I am still unable to get the Continental flight crew announcements to work either, and, yes, I have turned on the
speaker naturally. Has anybody else had this problem yet??
A great product but a pity about the autopilot. The aircraft
autopilot behaved excellently in FS2000!!!
12-18-2001, 06:18 PM
The G/S following issue is a know bug in FS2002.
The Continetal callouts should work. Make sure the speaker switch on the radio stack is turned on and also make sure the switch on the announcment annunciator panel is set to Auto.
I don't understand why some people have a lot of problems with the g/s tracking and some don't. Is it an airport-specific thing? Is it a machine speed thing? Is it a flap schedule/speed thing?
I don't mean this in a bad way. It is just that I have never landed very short even with full autolands in a lot of beta testing. I am trying to understand why this problem afflicts some people more than others.
I usually intercept the g/s at about 180-200kts about 3000' AGL, 5-10 flaps, often drop the gear near the intercept, begin dropping speed to Vref +5 - 10 depending on wind, and keep adding flaps appropriately as I slow. It may drop about 1/2 to 1 dot below g/s, but if I am more careful with flaps/speed, it seems to stay more on track.
Lee Hetherington (KBOS)
12-18-2001, 07:59 PM
I spent an entire day flying the GS with other default aircraft. With the light ones it works just "okay". I spent quite a bit of time with the default 737, and found it to be a disaster in this regard.
Other members of our team noted the same with the default aircraft. It's not "fine" at all.
12-19-2001, 01:38 PM
When you start the flight sim and select an aircraft, the fuel level is set to 100%. This is too much fuel for flights less than a couple of hours. Your plane is to heavy. At your departure point click on the aircraft menu and select fuel. Change your fuel level to 50%. Also watch you speed on final. I had this same problem and with the fuel adjustment along with speed observation, I was able to fly the glideslope without and problems. Good luck......
12-19-2001, 05:07 PM
It is a known FS2002 bug. But you can get it less more significant if you actually spend attention to landing weight.
There is a great tool in load edit program. Watch the maximum fuel after loading, and then plan your fuel for the trip, not for the time you are sitting in front of your flightsimming.
"2 tons for take off, 2 tons consuming/hour 1ton for app/diversion alternativ". For correct fuelplanning use the fuelplanning program at Dreamfleet sajt.
Correct speed/flaps/gear down. Tips, do not press "app knob" until you are
"established on final", when passing 1500feet press second a/p.
My problem is that I cannot get both A and B lights to come on. Both NAV1 and NAV2 are tuned identically. The manual says that when you are pretty close to glide slope the APP button should turn on. I was smack on it quite a few times tonight and it did not turn on. I guess I am missing something. I did not flick ANY other switches on the NAV console. The altitude and direction indicators for the ILS are alive. But I cannot turn the second AP on.
Any suggestions oldtimers ?
12-20-2001, 05:54 AM
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-01 AT 04:56AM (EDT)[p]Edit:
failed to see one thing in the original post... delete this
12-20-2001, 10:52 AM
for me the glideslope following works fine.
MS made a mistake in the aircraft.cfg of the 3 default boeings, thats why they crash ;) On the flightsim.com tips page is a fix and that works fine for me.
And all the other add-on planes work ok also :)
12-20-2001, 11:44 AM
I have to ask...did you try the autopilot tutorial from the FS2002 Tips Index?
I'm totally puzzled if you have tried Bill Molony's procedure exactly, because I have numerous APP mode landings with the DF737 now that I've followed the glideslope all the way to the runway. I do have to take over for flare, but it lands beautifully from there.
If I can help in any way, feel free to e-mail me:
OK. figured it out...don't I feel semi-dumb now :-)
Anyways, for the benefit of all newbies out there...the reason why I could not engage APP on final was because my NAV was not on manual but on AUTO. Just finished the FMC tutorial before that and obviously remembered that when using the FMC you need the NAV to be set to AUTO. Well, setting them to manual did the trick...I engaged APP and both APs. Glide slope following was a tad lazy but it eventually did it's thing. I did notice that on final approach it did take me below the glide slope and the copilot kept yelling GLIDE SLOPE and SINK RATE...I took over about 50 ft off the runway, flared and touched down right on the centreline. Yes, I did get the impression that it was going to crash and I did not want that to happen as it was my first fully automated glide slope approach. Tonight I will let it do it's own thing and see if it will crash or not..
Well, I bit the bullet and let the AP fly it all the way down to touchdown. I got the usual GLIDESLOPE and SINKRATE bitching from the PC but I did not crash. It was smack on !. My glide slope capture is set to medium. I presume if I set it to high it will hold the glideslope much better and I will not get the two sound alerts...
Will try and see if it does anything to my frame rates...
12-20-2001, 09:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-01 AT 09:01PM (EDT)[p]I hadnt tried an Autoland let alone fly the ILS on Autopilot since the update, so after reading this thread I decided to have a go.
First I flew the YMML Melbourne Australia Rwy 16ILS approach in the default MS737. Then flew exactly the same routeing etc etc in the GA734.
I intercepted the ILS on Autolpilot from a 20 degree intercept at 13nm and 3000'. As YMML is at 440' alt (approx) this was giving me a G/S intercept at about 7nm, so plenty of time for the autopilot to get us established on the localiser. Which the MS737 needed, it made about 10 course corrections before getting settled. The GA734 made a very smooth intercept indeed and needed only a minor corrction or two once established on centreline. I used the same speeds for both aircraft. Slowing to 190kts & 10 flap at about 9nm. As I was about 1.5 dots low on the G/S I put the gear down and went to 15 flap and set 175kts. The MS737 made a smooth transition into the G/S and sat about 1/2 dot high for most of the approach. The GA734 amde a fairly hefty nose down to intercept (Im glad I put that seatbelt sign on :D ) and then flew most of the approach about 1/2 to 1 dot low, coming back right on the G/S as I set flaps 25 and 150kts passing about 1200' agl.
Years ago, way back when I did my multi IFR rating, I was taught to have the aircraft setup ready to touchdown at least 200 feet above the minima for the ILS appraoch you were flying. So following this rule I chose flaps 30 and 143kts passing 500'agl.
From here I got brave and went to spot view to watch the touchdown, ready to jump back in the cockpit immediately after landing.
The MS737 landed slightly nose wheel first on centreline about 750-1000 feet into the runway.
The GA734 landed perfectly, perfect visible hold off from outside view, on centreline about 400 feet into the runway. And for my opinion looked the much, much more realsitic approach attitude and landing.
The wind on the ground at the time was 180/08.
Maybe I got lucky with choosing YMML for my test. Maybe its one of the good ones. But as far as I could see, both seemed to track the ILS fairly well. Ive hand flown YSSY and YBBN as well as a few others and didnt notice anything looking unusuall re the G/S indications. My flying was up the creek in a big way on some though, so maybe the ILS was showing wrong and I just didnt notice I was so busy trying not to crash. Ill try some more tonight.
Selecting accurate glide slope following (for high-performance PCs) did nothing to hurt my PIII850 FPS. But it improved performance in as much as I get no more callouts (SINKRATE, GLIDESLOPE).
On another note...the AP hits the runway at -800 fpm. I wince when it does that...sounds like a military carrier landing...when I do it manually it is mucho smoother than that..so the question to real pilots is:
Is -800fpm a normal sink rate at touchdown ?
12-21-2001, 01:43 AM
Did you say manual touch down? That's music to my ears. It's beginning to look alot like Christmas! :-)
12-30-2001, 01:52 AM
Where can you specify accurate glide slope following ?
12-30-2001, 10:37 AM
Lee, I don't know what it is but I can't get it to capture the localiser either, no matter what I do, 30 degree angle whatever, even if I leave the intercept angle to 10 degrees and speed 170-180 with flaps 15, as the needle starts to move I click on APP and the aircraft just makes a 30 degree turn to the left and heads off in another direction every time. It's reallt wierd, I did have it working fine earlier in the Beta Testing but not now. Still the upshot is that I am getting very good at manual ILS approaches now. I disconnect the AP just at the point where I would usually engage APP, leaving the autothrottle engaged till about 500 feet AGL. You do tend to hear the "DON'T SINK" and "GLIDESLOPE" calls now and again though!
p.s. I still can't get the NAV radios to autotune either!
01-03-2002, 08:00 AM
Just some comments aboout my own experience with the glide slope following issue . I followed neyhd's advice about reducing the fuel load and still dropped too much when capturing the glide slope and came in below the glide slope with some improvement. I then started capturing the glide slope at 2000ft AGL rather then the 1200 feet AGL that I was using for MS2000. Thiis is giving me a perfect glide slope follow every time. It even worked for the default 777. So, it seems , for me anyway that the two major factors for good glide slope capture are weight reduction via fuel load reduction and the altitude that the glide slope is captured.
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