helipad help needed

[damo44]

I've created a really great hospital api (even if I say so myself) and the only problem with it was the rooftop helipad which I'd just sink thru.

I saw that Apt 2.6 build 135 had helipad support so I upgraded from an earlier build.

I've tried creating a helipad which floats off the ground (and hopefully just above my building) but the best I can get is either my api on top of a mountain or the helipad in a crater. Then I read the instructions which said it could only be used to make a ground helipad or one on top of an advanced building.

Tried placing one on top of an advanced building but the best I can get is a ground level, flickering white square underneath the building. Oh, and all the autogen scenery for miles around has gone too. I've tried with the default texture file and one of my own.

Can someone point me in the right direction.



David
david@vanguard2.freeserve.co.uk

[Jaybird]

>>
>I saw that Apt 2.6 build
>135 had helipad support so
>I upgraded from an earlier
>build.
>
>I've tried creating a helipad which
>floats off the ground (and
>hopefully just above my building)
>but the best I can
>get is either my api
>on top of a mountain
>or the helipad in a
>crater. Then I read the
>instructions which said it could
>only be used to make
>a ground helipad or one
>on top of an advanced
>building.
>
>Tried placing one on top of
>an advanced building but the
>best I can get is
>a ground level, flickering white
>square underneath the building. Oh,
>and all the autogen scenery
>for miles around has gone
>too. I've tried with the
>default texture file and one
>of my own.
>
>Can someone point me in the
>right direction.
>
>
>
>David
>david@vanguard2.freeserve.co.uk


Hi David..

Build 135 will build a working helipad using a (small) invisible runway for the elevated hard surface and applying a helipad texture.
One thing that was not included in the build 135 routine was an advisory note that a flatten area has to be applied directly underneath the helipad AT GROUND LEVEL. I think build 136 will add that advisory.

If the flatten area is not applied, the elevated runway will literally "Suck" the ground terrain up to it's own level which apparently is the condition you describe above in the "mountaintop experience". Oh well, you created yourself some "free" terrain mesh there for awhile <G>. I learned this "the hard way", making helipads on top of tall buildings in New York City.

Such flatten areas are easily applied using the "flatten area" option in Apt26 and they work well without having to manually write it into the FS2002 Scenery.cfg file. They can be as small as the base of the building your pad is on or as large as appropriate for your scenery project. Personally, I hate large flat areas in scenery because they're usually not an accurate rendition of most areas.

Another note of clarification: The elevated pads are not restricted to the "advanced buildings". I think Tom created a routine using advanced buildings to make it easier for us and also, advanced buildings offer better compatibility with FS2K & later sims. The pads can be at any level you choose whether on a building or not although they look sort-of strange by themselves. The flatten area is required at ground level even with the pads on advanced buildings.

One other note is that when originating a flight in a scenery area with these elevated runways and flying approx 1/2 to a full degree (distance) vector away from the area and then returning, the area scenery often must be refreshed by going to the scenery library and hitting the enter key. It appears to me that FS2002 is not sensing the area borders like the previous sims did.

In summary: Place a flatten area under all elevated helipads, else you will create some strange geological formations.

[Barney]

Your texture is likely causing the surrounding autogen to disappear if you've made it too large.

Can't speak for the helipad tool/option; I haven't used it. But it sounds like the elevation you're striving for isn't being "hardened" and that's why your sinking.

Try making a separate scenery file (*.bgl) and set the elevation to that which you want. The coordinates will have to reflect the location you want the pad. Create a runway with "invisible" texture and size it so that it encompasses the area of the helipad, set the elevation to that which you want and position it to cover the pad.

Let us know if this works.

Barney

[damo44]

Hi guys.

I followed Jaybird's suggestion and now have a working helipad in the correct position.

A couple of problems/questions though.

1. I can't seem to alter its size. Sure, I can change the dimensions in Airport without any problem and the pad gets bigger/smaller in the main Airport window. Even the SCASM preview in the helipad popup shows the change. But the finished object in FS2002 just stays the same size. Just in case it wasn't picking up the new bgl I made some other modifications to the pad's position and these were honoured.

2. Are the windsock/lights options supposed to do anything? If I check the 3 boxes, the changes aren't actioned and the next time I go in they're blank again.

3. As I said before I used my own texture and saved it as an extended bitmap. Not sure why, but that's what the default one is. Getting Airport to recognise this bitmap seemed a bit tricky. I'm not sure what I did in the end, but I had to select every combination of directories, and put copies of the bitmap in at least 3 places before it was eventualy found by the helipad popup. I had the same problem later with the _LM version. I did lots of clicking around and copying, repeating myself several times, and then suddenly it recognised that there was a night texture file.

Anyone else have this kind of issue or is it just me doing something wrong?

Regards


David

[Jaybird]

David: See *comments below...

1. I can't seem to alter its size. Sure, I can change the
dimensions in Airport without any problem and the pad gets
bigger/smaller in the main Airport window. Even the SCASM
preview in the helipad popup shows the change. But the
finished object in FS2002 just stays the same size.
Just in case it wasn't picking up the new bgl I made some other
modifications to the pad's position and these were honoured.

*The helipad routine is hard coded to require a 256x256
texture bitmap for the points to "fit". As you've noticed,
the Apt26 graphic size is flexible but the compiling to .bgl
is not. If you need help in resizing a desired portion of
a bitmap to make it work, let me know and maybe I can help.
I have an idea you may already know how to do this though.

2. Are the windsock/lights options supposed to do anything?
If I check the 3 boxes, the changes aren't actioned and the
next time I go in they're blank again.

*No, although Tom Hiscox has already placed the buttons in
the build Helipad window he probably has not yet had the
time to do all the coding required to make it compile.
Look for that to be in one of the next build releases.
(And send Tom a Thank-You note for all the hard work &
time he's donating for this freeware designer).

3. As I said before I used my own texture and saved it as an
extended bitmap. Not sure why, but that's what the default one is.

*Good move... Since FS2000, MS is using mostly extended bitmaps.
According to people who know, they contain added information
useful for something.

Getting Airport to recognise this bitmap seemed a bit tricky.
I'm not sure what I did in the end, but I had to select every
combination of directories, and put copies of the bitmap in at
least 3 places before it was eventualy found by the helipad
popup. I had the same problem later with the _LM version. I
did lots of clicking around and copying, repeating myself
several times, and then suddenly it recognised that there
was a night texture file.

*I know it's easy to get confused with this stuff, However,
the only place the texture bitmap you choose is required to
reside is in the FS2002\Texture folder. Even when yu've put
the scenery in the "AddonScenery" I've found this works.
One thing you probably ought to do is to "ADD" the scenery
your working-on in the FS2002 Scenery Library.

*NOTE: For this Helipad routine, you don't need a night
(*_LM.bmp) bitmap because the SCASM syntax used causes
it to be painted the same brightness Day or Night. Take
a look at the SCASM syntax (code) by clicking on the SCASM
button & you'll note that the 'LoadBitmap command does not
contain the "L" symbol anywhere AND the painting is called
as "Shaded" TexPoly. The text "Shaded" causes it to be the
same brightness Day or Night.


Anyone else have this kind of issue or is it just me doing
something wrong?

Regards

David

*I don't see that you've actually done anything wrong. You may have "panicked" a little over the texture locations and by
assuming all the buttons worked but that causes you to learn
more <G>. Remember that Apt26 & probably all the design progs
is a "Work In Progress" and subject to making a later rev.
I'm a septuagenerain (look that one up) and still learning
something every day...

Regards; J.R.

[damo44]

>*The helipad routine is hard coded
>to require a 256x256
>texture bitmap for the points to
>"fit". As you've noticed,

Ahhh, that explains it.

>is not. If you need
>help in resizing a desired
>portion of
>a bitmap to make it work,
>let me know and maybe
>I can help.
>I have an idea you may
>already know how to do
>this though.
>

Perhaps you credit me with too much understanding. I can make different size bitmaps but I suspect it's more complex than that. In this instance I have solved the problem (OK cheated) by making my building a little wider than strictly necessary - shhhh don't tell anyone. I may call on your services soon though as I might need to shoehorn a helipad into a very small space.


>*No, although Tom Hiscox has already
>placed the buttons in
>the build Helipad window he probably
>has not yet had the
>
>time to do all the coding
>required to make it compile.

That's cool. Looking forward to Tom getting the time to do this.

>(And send Tom a Thank-You note
>for all the hard work
>&
>time he's donating for this freeware
>designer).
>

Tom's work is very much appreciated. I've been using Airport intermittantly for about 2-3 years now and the amount of work he has put in is very impressive. Thanks mate!


>*I know it's easy to get
>confused with this stuff, However,
>
>the only place the texture bitmap
>you choose is required to
>
>reside is in the FS2002\Texture folder.
> Even when yu've put

I hear what you're saying. But I'm convinced that I needed to repeat myself a few times before finding a setup that worked. Maybe there's some caching going on that I don't understand.

>One thing you probably ought to
>do is to "ADD" the
>scenery
>your working-on in the FS2002 Scenery
>Library.

Done this

>
>*NOTE: For this Helipad routine,
>you don't need a night
>
>(*_LM.bmp) bitmap because the SCASM syntax
>used causes
>it to be painted the same
>brightness Day or Night.

I had a bitmap prepared with floodlights/shadows so I wanted to use this. After a few attempts (read random clicking around) Apt26 recognised it as a valid LM and it showed up OK in FS2002

>Take
>a look at the SCASM syntax
>(code) by clicking on the
>SCASM
>button & you'll note that the
>'LoadBitmap command does not
>contain the "L" symbol anywhere AND
>the painting is called
>as "Shaded" TexPoly. The text
>"Shaded" causes it to be
>the
>same brightness Day or Night.

Unfortunately in my case this would have looked very artificial hence my alternate texture file.

>I'm a septuagenerain (look that one
>up) and still learning
>something every day...

I'm guessing 70+. I'm a little younger (OK about half that) and I'm learning loads of new stuff all the time.

Regards



David

[Jaybird]

Hello again David..

'Been busy. Daughter & Grandson visiting from upstate so there have been some "delays" around here <G>

Here's a little blurb on how I do texture manipulating you were interested-in.

**Example of Selecting, copying & pasting and manipulating a chosen helipad image for use as Extended Bit Textures:

1. In your paint software (this description is based on Paint Shop Pro 5.1), browse to the helipad texture bitmap named "helo4.bmp" in the FS2002\Texture folder.
2. Open the "helo4 bitmap", choose 1 of the 4 images in that texture map and use the "selection" tool to draw a select box around it.
3. From the <Edit> menu, click on "Copy", then close the bitmap and the browser.
4. Click-on <File/New>, and set-up for new image characteristics of: 256x256 pixels, 72 pixels/inch, 256 color, 8 bit. This should result in your having an entirely black 256x256 image map, or we can call it a "canvas".
5. From the <Edit> menu, "Paste" the graphic copied in (3) above and your
chosen helipad graphic should appear centered in the black "canvas". If
you later wish to change the graphic's size relative to the canvas, you can
do it by adjusting the size of the canvas relative to the graphic or vice versa.
6. Save the new image as a windows bitmap to the FS2002\Texture folder. For the purpose of this example, name it "HPadNew.bmp".

**Making your chosen image into a FS2002 "Extended Bit Map" using Martin Wright's BMP2000 utility:

1. Open the BMP2000 utility, click-on "Load any Image" to load your previously saved "HPadNew.bmp" into BMP2000. It should appear the same as when you originally saved it.
2. Click-on the "Transparency" button, which opens a 256 color transparency map of the image.
3. Click on the "Set Color 0 Transparent" & verify the color number 0 (black) is now showing a value of "0" in the upper left window (was 256). Note that this is the fastest way to set a black (only) background image transparency.
In BMP2000, you may select any of the colors to any level of transparency.
4. Click-on "Save Transparency Map" button, name and save the new map.
5. Click-on "Save Pallet", and "Exit", which takes you back to the first window of BMP2000.
6. Click-on "Save Image Set". BMP2000 creates a multiple image set useful for extremely accurate future bitmap editing, if needed.
7. Finally, Click-on "Save Extended Format BMP". This saves the extended bitmap to an 87 kb sized file (was 65 kb), ready for use.

The new helipad routine in Apt is very flexible and should handle your "*_LM.bmp" bitmap OK by putting a check mark in the "Night" box in the create helipad window of Apt.
Regards; J.R.

[damo44]

Here's an interesting obesrvation.

I've landed on my helipad which is about 75 feet off the ground. I sit there for a couple of minutes with the engine running and then PLONK I sink right through it and crash into the ground.

Thinking that I must have toppled over the edge I land again and position myself directly in the centre of the (large) helipad. Again after a minute or two THUD there I go again.

Anyone else experienced this?


David

[Jaybird]

>Here's an interesting obesrvation.
>
>I've landed on my helipad which
>is about 75 feet off
>the ground. I sit there
>for a couple of minutes
>with the engine running and
>then PLONK I sink right
>through it and crash into
>the ground.
>

**************************************************

David, I thought we had you "all fixed up" with working Helipads. Now, here you are crashing on us...

Are you using FS2002? And did you make the pad with either Apt build 135 or 136? If so, they should work. The "falling through" you describe is what happens in FS2002 when you use the older Area16 surface hardening code instead of the build 135 & later code which uses a small, invisible elevated runway elevated over a Ground Level Flatten Area. In FS2002, the Area16 routines simply don't work consistently and as far as I know, only MS knows why.

Another possibility is that your elevated runway is too small and your Heli is "creeping" over the edge. The default size and length of the invisible runway is 30x30 meters. You can adjust that in the "create helipad" window if it's marginally small. I doubt that's the porblem because you would surely have noticed it's "creeping"

[damo44]

>David, I thought we had you
>"all fixed up" with working

So did I

>Are you using FS2002? And

Yes

>did you make the pad
>with either Apt build 135
>or 136? If so,

135

>in the "create helipad" window
>if it's marginally small.
>I doubt that's the porblem
>because you would surely have
>noticed it's "creeping"

I'm landing (well pogo sticking really as my helo skills are minamal) in the centre of the pad. And as far as I can tell there's no creeping after I land.

I'm going to time it soon so that I can tell if the same time elapse between landing and sinking on each occasion.


David