How to make rear illuminated panels and indicators.

[Captain_Slarty]

One of the problems with making rear illuminated panels at home is that printing on acetate with an inkjet leaves a 'see through' effect, the black just isnt dense enough.

After an experimental session, I have found a way to get professional results easily, at home, with a 600dpi inkjet and multiple acetate layer.

The test panel in this image is 4 layers, 1 with orange lettering (making nice use of the 'see through' nature of acetate printing) - but still a black panel, and 3 layers of black / white. As white doesnt exist to an inkjet, it doesnt print anything in the 'white' areas leaving a nice see through area. the beauty of this is that using the 4 layer method you can easily make panels, panel indicators, gauge fronts etc, all thats needed at the rear is a light enclosure with simple white paper as a reflecter.

I am intending to order a few sheets of translucent white acetate to enable white front lettering for certain panels, when rear illuminated, if the 3rd layer, was, say, orange, we would get white in the day or orange at night with lighting on.

again this is proof of concept. One thing about this paticular test is that in the daytime (with no backlight, you cannot see the lettering at all.. so excellent for warning indicators. With a tranlucent white as the second layer, you would be able to see white in the day as said above.

I am sure with a bit of thought this could be used for most areas of the cockpit.
(The light source for the test is purely a desktop lamp with a sheet of white paper as a reflector) This is still very effective, with its own lightbox I think the results would be stunning.

Joe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/lightpanel.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/lightpanel1.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

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[morse]

That looks really impressive! There have been a couple of ideas floating around about acetate printing, but no examples.

I guess that if ones panel was made of wood, it would be just as effective to mount the acetate on the wood with holes cut where illumination was required?

That would limit the use of it for things like rings around rotaries etc wouldn't it?

However, well done on the concept! :-)

Chris

[tigert]

>That looks really impressive! There have
>been a couple of ideas
>floating around about acetate printing,
>but no examples.
>
>I guess that if ones panel
>was made of wood, it
>would be just as effective
>to mount the acetate on
>the wood with holes cut
>where illumination was required?
>
>That would limit the use of
>it for things like rings
>around rotaries etc wouldn't it?

You could make your panels from white plexi (or what is that plastic thing called)

- or just do plywood or whatever for the main structure and have all "backlightable" parts be separate pieces attached over holes in the main "panel" wiht some screws in the corners. Gives some 3d detail to the panel anyway - and makes it possible to design things "modular" so that you can make the structure separate from the actual button and lever panels.

Tuomas

[LeoL]

Hasn't anybody tried using Press n' Peel or Toner Transfer sheets for this stuff? Should work pretty good on plexi although it might not be scratch resistant, but you could sandwich it between a couple of thin sheets.

I'm not at that stage of my pit yet, but its something I intend to try when the time comes.

For those who don't know what they are: they’re used for transferring PCB artwork to copper clad boards for etching. You print your circuit layout onto these sheets and then iron them or press them onto a copper clad board for etching.

-Leo

[mondriver]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-03 AT 07:35AM (EST)[p]Joe

Have to say.......

BRILLIANT !!!

Like all good things....so simple, yet so effective !

To me this is THE most important (and difficult) element to the whole pit building issue. To produce backlightable panels cheaply and most importantly accurately is the "holy grail"

I'm fortunate to use actual aircraft sims as part of my job, and the whole illusion of "being there for real" rests with the quality of the quiet/dark cockpit environment.....

I've been trying to get a solution for creating back-lightable panels for ages, and most have come unstuck due to cost. Laser engraving seemed to be the only accurate method, but was just too costly to do on a large scale.

Your ideas here have certainly sparked my imagination and I will be experimenting with your methods.

If you develop the idea further, PLEASE PLEASE share with us......
Fantastic work matey !!!

Nick

[mondriver]

Joe

Could you let me know which brand of OHP acetate you have used.

I've tried printing on one, and the wash colour is still quite "grainy"......

Does your black wash go on uniform with the brand you are using?!

Thanks

Nick

[Captain_Slarty]

Hi Nick,
they are hp ones, with genuine hp ink, printed at 600 dpi.
as said above in the first post, use 4 layers of acetate to get the correct effect.

One trick worth noting is to place the top layer ink side down, if you look from the back it appears solid (ie not grainy), if you want gloss you can simply use glossy acetate, if you use a matt acetate you get matt.
the top layer would need to have the image reversed though.

the tricky part is aligning the layers !! ;-)

does it look smooth from the back of the acetate on the one you printed ??.. it should... ??

Joe.


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

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[mondriver]

Thanks for the reply Joe.....

Been using different settings of print and have incorporated into an annunciator light.....

Found that setting printer to "Glossy Film" and 720dpi produces a great result, much better than before, and only needs two layers....so easier to align !!

See what you think....

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5cfe5663e16774.jpg

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5cfe9364185e44.jpg

[Captain_Slarty]

SPOT ON Nick !!

Nice work..

they look like genuine indicator assemblies ??..

If not, they are mint !!.

if they are not, or for others who want to see a genuine indicator.., its made up of a bulb housing (2 bulbs), a white translucent piece (simply a diffuser (standard printer paper works well!), the legen sheet, then a slightly smoked semi transparant sheet (and refelctive and to stop other light sources from false illuminating the indicator.

Heres a shot of the indicator in bits, you can see all the parts, then an assembly sequence (sorry about the change in shade me desklamp bulb decided to die !..)
;-)

Joe..

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind1.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind2.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind3.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind4.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind5.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind6.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/ind7.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

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[mondriver]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-03 AT 12:00PM (EST)[p]Made some interesting developments today regarding back-lit panels as opposed to indicator lights.

I am building a 767 sim which has brown panels.

I've printed the panel layout in black at 720dpi onto the clear acetate, reversed the image and printed it again. This allowed them to be sandwiched together and placed ink to ink. This stopped finger prints, held them together well, and helped to "merge" the ink together.

This has now created a completely accurate representation of the panel which is now "light blocked" apart from the clear pieces in the acetate which is what I want illuminating.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5e3f4e46ce14c8.jpg

I then printed the same panel, in the Boeing brown colour onto high grade white injet paper. This created an accurate colour for the panel, and nice bright light diffusing white for the "illuminated" parts"

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5e40ae47e01f0a.jpg

Placing the matt black panels behind the brown front face now matched perfectly and provided a back lightable "paper" panel !!

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5e4102480dba2a.jpg

and placing a torch behind the panel gave a very basic idea if it was going to "leak" light or not.....

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5e44144ac8db50.jpg

The last pic is not very good, but it looks much better in real life, and when mounted correctly with proper low luminance bulbs back lighting it, it will be look very accurate !!

So, to finish things, I just need an accurately cut piece of 5mm thick perspex, put the layers I've made on top and provide some sort of protective "top coat" to it all which will hold everything in place, and........hey presto...!!!!

Anybody have any ideas for a matt top coat for this>?!!!

Cheers

Nick

[Captain_Slarty]

Well Done Nick, great job !

So, the Captn Slarty 'concept' worked ok lol ... ;-) ??

that is looking superb!.

the first one I did I used 'ink to ink' it also 'glued' it in position..

As for the matt covering.. I am not sure.. but check artists shops for fixing sprays.. the type artists use on pastel paintings and the like.. I am sure you can get a matt version...
just spray it on, a matt finish and fixative in one !

Joe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

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[mondriver]

Thanks Joe....

Your help and ideas have been invaluable to me.

I'll be checking for a matt fixative/spray today at the art shops, and have also just remembered seeing a matt self adhesive plastic sheet supplied on a roll at B&Q (I think) which would probably do the job well.....

I'll give it a go !

[Captain_Slarty]

I think the spray would be better Nick, getting the bubbles out of the self adhesive stuff would probably be a pain..

Post the results !

Joe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

System - >
3gig Intel + .. Size DOES matter

[npbosch]

Hello

Very nice thread this one. 2 questions

What is acetate? is it something like plastic sheets used in overhead projectors?


@ Nick

Did you glue these 2 acetate sheets to each other?
Did you glue the paper also to the acetate sheets?

Thanks for your answer

Norbert Bosch

[Captain_Slarty]

Hi Norbert, I am sure Nick will answer with his method, but I can help on the Acetate, yes, it is exactly that, for overhead projectors, just get the type designed for inkjet printers.

Joe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

System - >
3gig Intel + .. Size DOES matter

[mondriver]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-03 AT 10:22AM (EST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-03 AT 10:17 AM (EST)

Hi Norbert

The two black layers I used to block the light are not glued together.

As Joe advised, I printed two panels onto one piece of acetate. One version of the panel was the correct orientation, and the second was a mirrored image of the panel, which when cut to the correct size was placed ontop of the first one.

They sat together "ink to ink" and even after letting them dry for 5 mins, was enough to keep them "stuck" together.

I've just bought some "Fablon" brand stick back plastic from my local hardware store (B&Q) and have managed a very good reult using that as a final "top coat". With a little care, it went on very well, with not one air bubble.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5f7b89280663ff.jpg

By cutting an additional 1cm around the whole panel, I folded the plastic back on the underside of the panel and this kept everything in place nicely.

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5f7bc42829421c.jpg

All I'm left to do now is to mount it onto my piece of 5mm thick perspex material which will have the switch mount holes machined out accurately, and away we go !!

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5f7bde284e3392.jpg

This is by far the best result and easily the cheapest way (Joe, I owe you a beer or two!!) of making accurate, detailed professional looking panels I have come up with....and believe me, I've been looking into all sorts of possibilities!!!

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e5f7e9429d513c7.jpg

I'll keep you informed how the machining of the plastic and metal mounting plates go....!

[npbosch]

Thanks for the explanation. It is completely clear now.

I think it will be diffucult to dril holes (or even worse make squares) in the panel for mounting of the switches, because all the layers.

So I am looking forward to see the final result.


Norbert Bosch

EHAM

[Captain_Slarty]

use a scalpel.. problem sorted..

;-)

Joe.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/captainslarty/Images/coolskul.gif

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3gig Intel + .. Size DOES matter

[Fredo]

LOL, looks more like a package ready for the mail than a panel..... You still have the problem of moun ting the switches. What are you going to do, mount them to paper? :0

Or, are you going to mount them to something stable and clear like acrylic so that the light can pass through. And if acylic is the case, then your back to laser cutting.

[mondriver]

all in good time Fredo...all in good time !!!